Should a beginner start with the best cube available?

[Yuxuibbs]

i have been using my rubik's brand as my main cuz all my other 3x3s broke and i get the same times with the rubik's brand as my other speed cube.... almost sub 20 averages of 12, rare averages under 19....

 

[Phlippieskezer]

I'm very indifferent to the matter.

// Not voting.

I honestly don't think it's necessary to start with an 'OMG WOW THIS IS AMAZING' quality cube, because often times the newbie, if he continues to cube, won't appreciate the quality of the corner cutting, speed, etc. However, I think it's also silly to start with a horrible cube, because it can build bad habits (especially with fingertricks), and when you switch, it might be difficult to control the new cube (plus, you're pretty much wasting money).

 

[HelpCube]

i agree that we should learn to turn the cube accurately.. :tu
but why would someone practice with a tighter cube if in the end, he/she will use a "loose" cube?
and.. I think "speed" is still important in speedcubing.

I'll go back to my baseball batter's example. That's like saying why would someone swing with a donut if in the end, he/she will use a bat which is lighter?
So that its easier. Same thing applies to cubing. Sure, if you practice with the most amazing cube in the world you'll get pretty good with it, but if you practice with something worse first, using the most amazing cube will seem so easy.

 

[The Bloody Talon]

I'll go back to my baseball batter's example. That's like saying why would someone swing with a donut if in the end, he/she will use a bat which is lighter?
So that its easier. Same thing applies to cubing. Sure, if you practice with the most amazing cube in the world you'll get pretty good with it, but if you practice with something worse first, using the most amazing cube will seem so easy.

oh okay.. I see your point. :tu
but does it really work?
I mean, if I would use a tight cube now and get used to it, would it increase my TPS if I use my zhanchi?
and if it really works, maybe it will be a good training for me.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

I think if people have a cube that's too fast, they will develop sloppy fingertricks. Your turning will be unstable if you use the fastest cube. That might not make sense, but I'll put it this way. When you're learning fingertricks, it's good to have a little resistance, because then it forces you to not screw up. Then you can get the fingertricks into your muscle memory. However, you can still use a dayan cube. Just lube it excessively with lubix/differential oil/shock oil so that it's slower. Then you can clean out some of the lube after.

 

[maggotcuber]

I say no. If anyone here plays an instrument, beginners should NEVER have a professional level instrument because theres no need for a student it. They would buy lower end but not necessary bad, instruments so that they can learn proper technique and care for the instrument.
I feel that the same applies to cubing, there's no need for a beginner to use the beat cube simply because the r just starting out, its not going to make a difference if they have a zanchi or a storebought (honestly they would get a between time with the storebought imo) once you begin to improve and the "lesser" cube isn't suitable then you can upgrade to a more "professional" grade cube.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

I say no. If anyone here plays an instrument, beginners should NEVER have a professional level instrument because theres no need for a student it. They would buy lower end but not necessary bad, instruments so that they can learn proper technique and care for the instrument.
I feel that the same applies to cubing, there's no need for a beginner to use the beat cube simply because the r just starting out, its not going to make a difference if they have a zanchi or a storebought (honestly they would get a between time with the storebought imo) once you begin to improve and the "lesser" cube isn't suitable then you can upgrade to a more "professional" grade cube.

A good instrument will make the difference between whether a person sticks with it or not. Also, instruments are a bad comparison, because a professional instrument can be ten fold more expensive than a beginner instrument. Look at a squier affinity strat vs an American Special. The Squier affinity is about $250 in a package with an amp. The American Special is $1500. I'm not comparing it to a squier bullet, or classic vibe, because those are actually good. XD

However, guitarists have it easy. You can buy a decent student violin for $500 dollars, but you'd be lucky to find a custom professional violin for $5000. A rubik's cube here is about $12. I can buy a Dayan Guhong for $14 or less. That's like a beginner buying a Squier Classic vibe strat for $300, rather than a Squier Affinity for $250. It's definitely worth it, because the Classic Vibe is WAY better, and I won't have to replace it once I get better. I'll just change the things I do to it.

 

[5BLD]

Well I believe they shouldn't.

One if my friends I have been teaching has a Lingyun, which my other friend got him from hong kong (he got me a zhanchi too )
But now, when he picks up my type c, he says 'urgh it's so stiff how can you use this thing'... But if he started with say a storebought, he will appreciate corner cutting and speed.

And I'm one of those as Jorghi says, look-ahead freaks... And I practice on a type c, but do averages with my zhanchi. Why? Well I get a few lock ups with my type c but I'm kinda used to it.
When I switch to my zhanchi, I get absolutely no lockups and am a second or so faster.
If I practiced on my zhanchi from the beginning I would be a sloppy turner, and not be able to use other cubes comfortably.

 

[30secondsolver]

who gives a ****! everyone is entitled to buy whatever cube they want. nuff said.

 

[The Bloody Talon]

who gives a ****! everyone is entitled to buy whatever cube they want. nuff said.

:tu
you are a genius

 

[The Bloody Talon]

If I practiced on my zhanchi from the beginning I would be a sloppy turner, and not be able to use other cubes comfortably.

maybe.
but will you use other cubes if it doesn't suit your turning style?

 

[Godmil]

so if your fingers are used to the looseness, you aren't a good cuber. cubing isn't about speed, it's about accuracy and precision.

I'm searching and searching the WCA site and I just can't find any records for accuracy and precision. Do you have any links?
If you're saying you can only get fast with good accuracy, do you think that's something that can only be learned on a tight cube? I'd say if it does make a significant difference to speed, then it should also make a difference on a loose cube (it would have to be or it wouldn't be a factor) in which case you should also be able to learn to improve on a loose cube.

I'll go back to my baseball batter's example. That's like saying why would someone swing with a donut if in the end, he/she will use a bat which is lighter?

But that's solely to build up strength, you don't need to do that in cubing.
If you swap between fast and slow cubes you instantly feel the difference, but you quickly get used to it. Does that few seconds (or couple of minutes) of going "ooh this feels easier to turn" actually improve your cubing? I'm not convinced there is any benefit from deliberately getting used to a cube other than your main one.

beginners should NEVER have a professional level instrument because theres no need for a student it.

Somerandommike already picked up on this, but if a great sounding instrument that really inspired you to play it, and a rubbish piece of **** that was unconformable to play and sounded awful cost exactly the same price, would you really still agree with that statement? 'cause that's the only way your analogy works with cubes.

...Your turning will be unstable if you use the fastest cube.... ...Then you can get the fingertricks into your muscle memory.

But it could be easier for a beginner to learn how to hold the cube so that he's got good control of it before developing the muscle memory. If you had developed all your muscle memory on a really stiff cube, then didn't realise until you went onto a fast cube that you were really relying on the cube to hold itself together, then you'll find yourself having to completely relearn your grip and algs so that you're not accidental turning unintentional faces (that's exactly what happened to me).

 

[Litz]

It's ok to start with "the best cube available".

People are comparing this to other things (such as buying instruments) but it's way different. When you start a new activity, you aren't usually recommended the best material not because you can't handle it, but because the "best" material usually costs a lot more than a "good" one and you're just starting out so you still don't know if you'll stick with it or just quit after a bit.

With cubing though, this doesn't happen. Generally speaking, the "best" cubes are actually cheaper than, say, Rubik's brand cubes so there's no reason not to get a better one. For example, my most expensive 3x3 was my first cube (Rubik's brand) and it's by far the worst cube I have.

 

[CRO]

I started with Rubik's brand from the 80s, which was pretty bad. I got down to 45-50 secs with it, and after switching to F2, it took me a long time to get used to it and develop totally new fingertricks.

So, yes, I think begginers should start with the best cube they can get.

 

[DavidWoner]

I've seen the word "appreciate" pop up numerous times in this thread. So what? You sound like bitter old men "THEY DON'T APPRECIATE HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT!" Who cares? These are the arguments I've seen against starting with a good cube:

1. They won't appreciate it.
- What does this even mean? People say it like it's so important, but I feel like I'm being generous by even calling it an argument. "I want to train for a marathon." "Okay but you have to wear high heels for your first 6 months of training so you can learn to appreciate running shoes." See how stupid it sounds?

2. It costs more.
-Hardly, especially since you are saying they should spend money on a cube that they know they will stop using just to spend the same amount on the best cube in a few months. Dayans are only a few dollars more than a storebought, and cubes like Ghost Hands are less than half the price!

3. They will be sloppy turners.
-No, people are only sloppy when they switch from a bad cube to a good one and aren't used to the speed. I recently taught someone who has only ever used good cubes of mine, and the progress he made with fingertricks in just one day of learning was phenomenal. 4 years down the road and I am still unlearning bad habits developed from using a Rubik's Brand. I would NEVER subject a new cuber to something like that.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

But it could be easier for a beginner to learn how to hold the cube so that he's got good control of it before developing the muscle memory. If you had developed all your muscle memory on a really stiff cube, then didn't realise until you went onto a fast cube that you were really relying on the cube to hold itself together, then you'll find yourself having to completely relearn your grip and algs so that you're not accidental turning unintentional faces (that's exactly what happened to me).

That's why you use a stable cube that turns fairly well, but still has a little resistance. This COULD be a dayan guhong if you wanted. Again, if you put more lubix/differential oil/shock oil in it, there will be more resistance.

Edit: I just said they shouldn't use the FASTEST cube.

@ somerandomkidmike
I was referring more to the quality of the instrument instead of the price, I play trumpet and I would want to give a beginner my trumpet simply due to their bad habits, etc.

It's not relevant if they're the same price. I'd let a beginner use a Gibson '59 Les Paul if it was the same price to replace that as it was to replace a plywood guitar.

 

[The Bloody Talon]

Time to stop rambling and let people contradict my points.

well, you are not just rambling, you have points in there. :tu

as for the topic,
In my opinion, most people here use better cubes not because of they think that they are ready for that cube,
but because of the availability of the better cubes

 

[Kirjava]

Gotta love the woner.

I've seen people say that you should use Storeboughts first before moving onto cubes like Type A etc.

I've seen people say that you should use cubes like Type A first before moving onto Dayan.

If this misconception about what cubes to use continues and people keep giving this bad advice, I'm sure people will recommend using a Dayan cube first before moving onto (insert next greatest advancement in cubing). This makes no sense.

It's like saying that Python is a bad first programming language to learn and everyone should start with punch cards.

 

[Erik]

This thread seriously made me worried about the general knowledge of cubers on this forum. Especially since those without knowledge apparently think they are smart enough to give new cubers advice that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The result: more cubers thinking they know what's right (when they dont!)

- would you rather start running a marathon on flip flops of $100 than on good running shoes of $100?
- would you rather kiss the ugly, dumb, annoying girl than the hot, funny one, who can also solve a cube?
- would you rather get a $200 cell phone with which you can only make calls or a $200 cell phone that can makes pictures, take videos, send sms and browse the internet with?
- would you rather be stupid than smart?
- would you rather buy a new Ferrari for $10.000 than an old shabby Lada without ABS and airbags for the same price?

Why do you reckon people get to sub-20 within weeks nowadays? Because the cubes have improved since 1982!

 

[Godmil]

It's like saying that Python is a bad first programming language to learn and everyone should start with punch cards.

But you wont appreciate Python unless you've used punch cards. And it's really really important that you properly appreciate it.