Should a beginner start with the best cube available?

[The Bloody Talon]

But you wont appreciate Python unless you've used punch cards. And it's really really important that you properly appreciate it.

should we use abacus before using a scientific calculator?

argh! maybe we should stop comparing things to support our opinions.

I totally agree with kirjava and erik,
although the "think they are smart enough to give new cubers advice that doesn't make any sense whatsoever" is applicable to everybody, even to me.

 

[Godmil]

Or....
Say 1) a beginner starts with a rubiks brand and in 8 weeks gets down to 35 seconds, then buys a ZhanChi and can immediatly get 30 second.
2) A beginner starts with a ZhanChi, and not being held back by the cube or developing poor fingertricks gets to 30 seconds in 6 weeks.

It's easy to make hypothetical situations to support an opinion, but do you have any reason why a speed boost at the start is worse than one later on? Do you disagree with the idea that it's bad to waste time developing muscle memory to handle a cube that you're not going to be using very long, that you'll then need to spend time relearning your technique on a better cube (which you'll inevitably switch to)?

 

[Erik]

Let's place a begginer at 2 minuites.
The begginer can easily get down to around 40 seconds or less with a rubik's brand.
Just after that point, improving starts getting reaaal slow. At around 30 seconds, you can get a speedcube and reduce your times by around 5-10 seconds.

But know we'll start the begginer with a speedcube, and place him at 1 minuite.
He improves steadily, and lands around 30 seconds.
Now what? He's left to grind with hours and hours of practice.

The begginer will gain that extra minuite the speedcube starter has within 2 weeks easily.

In short, you can have your speed when you start, or when it matters.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. A beginner using a Rubiks brand will only develop bad habits and bad fingertricks because of the bad cube. This takes LOTS of time to get rid of once going to a better cube. Starting with a better cube will result in a good technique from the start causing the cuber to improve faster -> the cuber has more fun and is able to develop his skills much better AND saves 10$ on a Rubiks brand.

Besides, do you have any proof on what you are saying? So far you only made a hypothetical scenario based on... nobody knows.

 

[Erik]

Exactly, there ARE good Rubiks cubes (it's always fun to find the good ones at Mosaic building), but the chance you get one is not very great. So why take the risk?? Besides, I believe that the faster you get the more you notice the little differences in cubes. I have a good F2 and a good V-5 and stuff (sub-10 in competition), but still I wouldn't dare doing some fingertricks on those I can do on a GuHong. Probably you are not effected by such a thing (at least not affected as much) when times are a bit slower.

P.s. a good Rubiks brand is never as good as a GuHong of course

 

[tozies24]

Start out with whatever is easiest to get (Rubik's Brands by far) and see if the hobby takes hold.

This is what happens to people who start out. The beginners don't even know about the Guhongs, Zhanchis, Lingyuns, etc. At two minutes or even one minute, you are sitting there thinking, how in the heck do I solve this is 10 seconds like other cubers do (pros)? Then either they give up on speedcubing or they should get a speed cube if they want to pursue.

 

[Godmil]

The beginners don't even know about the Guhongs, Zhanchis, Lingyuns, etc.

That's true, you can't make people who've only just discovered cubing know what cube they should get... but when they make the leap and come onto the forums asking about cubes I don't think people should be saying stuff like "Stick with your storebought until you're sub-50." etc.

 

[tozies24]

The problem with this thread is that a beginner could mean a couple different things. They could be just starting out, they could have just joined the forums, or they could be someone who has been on the forums but does not really understand cubing that much.

That's true, you can't make people who've only just discovered cubing know what cube they should get... but when they make the leap and come onto the forums asking about cubes I don't think people should be saying stuff like "Stick with your storebought until you're sub-50." etc.

There is a reason that beginners (people who just started out) have a storebought. They don't know anything better. After they find an interest, I say go ahead with buying whatever cube. But then they aren't a beginner if they are looking into a new cube.

 

[BC1997]

Exactly, there ARE good Rubiks cubes (it's always fun to find the good ones at Mosaic building), but the chance you get one is not very great. So why take the risk?? Besides, I believe that the faster you get the more you notice the little differences in cubes. I have a good F2 and a good V-5 and stuff (sub-10 in competition), but still I wouldn't dare doing some fingertricks on those I can do on a GuHong. Probably you are not effected by such a thing (at least not affected as much) when times are a bit slower.

P.s. a good Rubiks brand is never as good as a GuHong of course

This is basicaly a good anwser to the whole thread!

 

[Axiys]

I think any beginner should If they can , should start with a good cube.
I started with a F II and I NEVER got a time above 2:45.
I started out with good finger-tricks and never had to unlearn any bad habits.
And my friends Rubik's brand cost him like $15 - 20! My F II was like $8.
I have a friend that quit cubing because he spent 15 bucks on a crappy cube, And he could never see how he could get fast using a bad cube, and he didn't have any money to buy a good cube, so he quit.
I have NEVER thought that getting a good cube did anything but good to my cubing

 

[nickcolley]

My non-cuber (or non-experienced maybe) friends are always asking to use my speedcubes because they are more enjoyable to use. Don't listen to this nonsense about using 'crappy' cubes. Speedcubing is a fun hobby and you want to go fast, just start with the best cube you can get your hands on and you'll enjoy it much more.

 

[insane569]

honestly, this thread has no meaning.
are we arguing that a non cuber should learn how to solve on a good cube or are we talking about a newb cuber that has never had a sub 1:30 but knows the basic dan brown method. if this is a non cuber learning go with a storebought. my friend bought a ghost hand II and he didnt even bother to learn a new method(he used DB method). but if its a newb cuber then go ahead and get a guhong if you really wanna get fast times or continue to cube. i have another friend that is currently learning how to solve a cube and hes really interested so im teaching him on my cubes instead of a storebought. so again, if there is an interest in speedcubing then go ahead and get a DIY but if your just about to learn and dont know if you wanna be a speedcuber then get a storebought or you will just waste money on a good cube for no reason

 

[The Bloody Talon]

honestly, this thread has no meaning.

well, I slightly agree with that. I created this thread because I see many cubers saying that beginners shouldn't use great cubes. Which I don't know if that is right or wrong. But still, according to the poll, it's a close fight.

are we arguing that a non cuber should learn how to solve on a good cube or are we talking about a newb cuber that has never had a sub 1:30 but knows the basic dan brown method. if this is a non cuber learning go with a storebought. my friend bought a ghost hand II and he didnt even bother to learn a new method(he used DB method). but if its a newb cuber then go ahead and get a guhong if you really wanna get fast times or continue to cube. i have another friend that is currently learning how to solve a cube and hes really interested so im teaching him on my cubes instead of a storebought. so again, if there is an interest in speedcubing then go ahead and get a DIY but if your just about to learn and dont know if you wanna be a speedcuber then get a storebought or you will just waste money on a good cube for no reason

nah, we should assume that the other factors are the same for all. Let us just talk about the cube.

 

[Ranzha]

Personally, if I were to teach someone how to cube, I wouldn't teach them on a storebought. In the same way, I wouldn't give them a DY5 and have them gogogo.
It doesn't matter overall what one starts with. It's the transition between cubes (if there is any; I've been through my fair share) until their future main which is important. They develop their own cubing style, learn how finger tricks work, etc.
I also don't particularly like it when people go to the forums and ask questions about what the fastest method is before trying any ("spoonfeeding", some call it). I experimented a lot (much to some users' chagrin), but through my continually asking "stupid questions" (since I literally had no idea what I was doing, trying out this "speedsolving" thing) and getting answers either here on the forums or in the IRC channel, I learned a thing or two about the cube. Not to mention I read up on pages of useful advice when cubing (http://jmbaum.110mb.com/f2l.htm, for one) which helped considerably.
Tl;dr: Don't be afraid to screw around with what cube you choose as your first cube. I'd consider trying out all sorts of types to get what's best for the cuber, not what everyone else says is best overall. Also, experiment with your cube! It's not all about timing. Look around--there are TONS of resources.

 

[Edward]

why me? :confused:

Because....
Oh and I was serious. I don't think it matters
Though I like how Erik put it. Why start with crap when you can get gold for the same price and effects.

 

[iseldoff]

I started a thred similar to this called cube progression just to see what cube ppl started out with and what they ended up with and most if not all say they started with a RUBIK's brand cube. So if there here at this site and researching speed cubing then most likely they already have a rubiks brand cube. But if not and a bEginner should ask me I'd say get the best cube they can find. Honestly what's all this garbage about appreciating your speed cube more. Who the hell cares about what I appreciate more does it matter if I still get good times? Also this argument about accuracy what does it matter how accurate I am if the cube I use all the time doesn't require that accuracy?why do I need accuracy if my cube cuts more then a whole cubie? And just because you start out on a slower/rubiks brand cube does not mean youll be more accurate, i started on a rubiks brand cube and found when i went to a better faster cube i had a problem with over turning because i was used to applying more force to turn the cube so i had to learn to take it easy and not do that, even though when i got the new cube my time still went down considerably immeditatly giving another point to who the heck needs accuracy.That is a perfect exsample of "bad habits" learned from a rubiks cube. As well i dident learn proper fingertricking because of the major difference in the force needed to turn the face.Also the whole comparing cubes to other things does not make any sence. With most things the better the prop the more expensive it is so it is a good idea to start out with something cheep just incase they don't like the hobby or what ever it is they didn't waist a hole lot of money on something they will never use, this does not apply to speedcubeing because most of the time if not all of the the time the better cube will be cheeper then the RUBIK's brand. And the comparison of the baseball bat using a donut makes o sence as well they only reason they do that is to build up the muscle in there are so that without it they can swing faster, there is no reason to do that with cubing because it doesn't take a lot of muscle to turn a cube properly.
So in conclusion it IS a good idea for beginners to get the best cube possible if not for anything else then because when you do your times are only limited by your ability, which forces you to look at that ability and make corrections consciously, forcing you to learn the proper way to turn the cube instead of just getting that ability because that what your used to as well as I really don't see what getting used to the RUBIK's brand cube would do anything at all good for your cubing in the future. Every cube is different and takes some time to "get used to". If your used to using a RUBIK's brand then you might not perform well on a zhanchi but then again if you used to a zhanchi then you might not perform well on a RUBIK's brand. Like I said all cubes are different.

So beginners go ahead and buy the better cheeper cube! Rather then wast your money on a piece of crap RUBIK's brand cube that you'll end up never using anyway. Now if you want to be a collector then of corse get a RUBIK's brand cube just for the nostalgia of it.

 

[stoic]

Buy the best cube you can and learn to love it!
BTW, if we're advising people not to buy fast cubes until they reach some mythical goalpost (or learn to "appreciate"), are they allowed to lube or not...?

 

[cubernya]

I started with a DianSheng (no, I never had a storebought to speedsolve, only pictocubes!)

 

[Cheese11]

I started a thred similar to this called cube progression just to see what cube ppl started out with and what they ended up with and most if not all say they started with a RUBIK's brand cube. So if there here at this site and researching speed cubing then most likely they already have a rubiks brand cube. But if not and a bEginner should ask me I'd say get the best cube they can find. Honestly what's all this garbage about appreciating your speed cube more. Who the hell cares about what I appreciate more does it matter if I still get good times? Also this argument about accuracy what does it matter how accurate I am if the cube I use all the time doesn't require that accuracy?why do I need accuracy if my cube cuts more then a whole cubie? And just because you start out on a slower/rubiks brand cube does not mean youll be more accurate, i started on a rubiks brand cube and found when i went to a better faster cube i had a problem with over turning because i was used to applying more force to turn the cube so i had to learn to take it easy and not do that, even though when i got the new cube my time still went down considerably immeditatly giving another point to who the heck needs accuracy.That is a perfect exsample of "bad habits" learned from a rubiks cube. As well i dident learn proper fingertricking because of the major difference in the force needed to turn the face.Also the whole comparing cubes to other things does not make any sence. With most things the better the prop the more expensive it is so it is a good idea to start out with something cheep just incase they don't like the hobby or what ever it is they didn't waist a hole lot of money on something they will never use, this does not apply to speedcubeing because most of the time if not all of the the time the better cube will be cheeper then the RUBIK's brand. And the comparison of the baseball bat using a donut makes o sence as well they only reason they do that is to build up the muscle in there are so that without it they can swing faster, there is no reason to do that with cubing because it doesn't take a lot of muscle to turn a cube properly.
So in conclusion it IS a good idea for beginners to get the best cube possible if not for anything else then because when you do your times are only limited by your ability, which forces you to look at that ability and make corrections consciously, forcing you to learn the proper way to turn the cube instead of just getting that ability because that what your used to as well as I really don't see what getting used to the RUBIK's brand cube would do anything at all good for your cubing in the future. Every cube is different and takes some time to "get used to". If your used to using a RUBIK's brand then you might not perform well on a zhanchi but then again if you used to a zhanchi then you might not perform well on a RUBIK's brand. Like I said all cubes are different.

So beginners go ahead and buy the better cheeper cube! Rather then wast your money on a piece of crap RUBIK's brand cube that you'll end up never using anyway. Now if you want to be a collector then of corse get a RUBIK's brand cube just for the nostalgia of it.

...Calm down

 

[Bapao]

I can appreciate that many members might think that using a good cube is something you should earn by reaching a certain (albeit undefined) level, but still...accuracy is something you can learn and practice with any cube.

The Mf8 Legend 3x3x3 demands a very high amount of accuracy for it to be of any use as a main speed cube for most people, but it's still the fastest and most effortless turner in terms of 3x3x3s. It would take considerably more time and work to master a Legend than it would to master a GuHong IMO. But why burden yourself with the handicap if you may never attain that kind of accuracy? There's a good point behind why one should start with a less forgiving cube, but in the long run, it doesn't really change significantly much later on down the line. At least for the average-joe cuber that isn't aiming to invest years of practice and one that doesn't have their sights set on beating world records or such.

I think we're still at the point where we have those that are saying "go for it, it doesn't really matter" and those that are stating "you can't handle a good cube yet, whereas I can, because I'm better/more experienced than you".

That's the whole reason behind why I experimented the base of this dispute on myself with an "inferior" cube. I wanted to see if there was a noticeable effect. I don't feel that the experiment produced any conclusive results, so it hasn't change my mind on the matter.

 

[DavidWoner]

Turning super accurately isn't really a good thing. You should take advantage of all the corner-cutting your cube has to offer. If I am doing U' R and I corner cut at 30 degrees, then I have eliminated the last 1/3 of the U' turn. Therefore I should be able to perform U' R in 1/6 less time than if I hadn't corner cut. Pushing your cube to its limits take time to get used to, which is another reason beginners should start with a good cube.