Should a beginner start with the best cube available?

should a beginner start with the best cube available?


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I think they should:

1) You don't learn bad habbits that come from using a bad cube

2) You start to use fingertricks faster without even having to learn them

3) Because of 2, algorithms become muscle memory faster

4) It's more motivating because it looks more impressive when you do it fast and use fingertricks/ improve faster in the beginning

5) An often called anti-argument is that your movement will be less precise because you can cut corners. I don't agree with this because even if you develop beter corner cutting skills on a bad cube, after using a DIY for a while you will lose those skills anyway (look a how fast you can de-learn bad fingertricks). And after cubing a lot even on a DIY you will be more precise anyway

6) I started with a Guhong and had no problem improving (I average 20 sec now, not that good but still)


EDIT: and 7) look at how slowly people used to advance in 2006 or so and compare that with now when we have better cubes

8) Most DIY cost the same price (or cheaper) as sucky rubiks brand cubes
 
I don't see why they shouldn"t. The only "bad" thing I can imagine is going to fast during F2L thus not improving as fast as they can their lookahead. I'm currently averaging in the low 16 (for 50 cubes), and I often notice that if I turn slightly slower I immediatly gain 1s or 2 ! The problem is that I have difficulties forcing myself to turn slower to let my brain see the cube more efficiently.

But since we are talking about beginners I don't think it would really be a problem before they get sub-20 sub-25 times, and usually when you got such times you already bought a good cube !
 
Ah you beat me to it, I thought it was about time this topic had it's own thread.
I believe a beginner should start with a good cube for these reasons.
1. A smooth turning cube is easier to turn with your fingers, therefore you can start using 'proper technique' straight away, rather than learning and getting used to wristing, then having to unlearn it later on.
2. A good cube is less likely to lock up, lockups are frustrating, if you are new to cubing you're more likely to have fun, and stick with it, if you're not getting frustrated.
3. Hard to turn cubes are straining on tendons ... 'rubik's wrist' used to be a big thing, but I'm not hearing anyone talking about it now. You are much more prone to RSI and carpel tunnel syndrome from a poorly turning cube. (My personal experience here is that I really got into cubing in the early 2000's, but a month later it had greatly contributed to a crippling RSI that saw me unable to use a computer for a year, and about 7 years before I stopped getting pains. When I started cubing again last year it didn't take long with a storebought before I could start to feel the pains coming back on. But since switching to a F2/A5/Dayan I've never had any hints of pain even after long periods of cubing.
4. Great cubes are cheap, and last a long time, the best cubes cost the same or just a little more than the worst storebought. People who suggest you make a progression: storebought till 1min, then Ghosthand until 40, then F2 till 30, then GuHong, are just recommending people waste money on cubes that they wont get much use out of before having to switch.

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And here are a few pre-emtive counterarguments:
1. "It's the cuber not the cube." - Yes it's mostly the cuber, but the cube does have a significant effect. There is noway anyone gets the same times on a crappy storebought as they could on a Dayan. People will surely post Felix getting a really fast time on a new storebought, but that's still probably 10% slower than he was on his Haiyan Memory at the time. If anything you'll see the most benefit from a good cube in terms of times earlier on. When I got my first DIY, from the very first solve I went from Averaging 2:30, to 1:15. And just last week after retiring my old GuHong and getting a Lubix ZhanChi my times went from 28s to 25s, pretty much instantly.

2. "I got sub-15 with a storebought." Nobody is saying you 'can't' get good on a storebought (particularly one that you've spent a great deal of time working in), but 'should' you? I'd hazard a guess you could have got quicker faster if you had a good cube from the start.

3. "Your turning accuracy will be better after using storeboughts." Yes, that's true, if you are forced to make each turn accurate to within say 5 degrees, then you'll be more accurate than someone who's used a cube that is tolerant of turns to within 15 degrees. But then since you'll inevitably be eventually moving onto a cube that it makes no noticeable difference if you're 15 degrees out, then does it really matter?

4. "Storeboughts force you to turn slowly, which helps with look ahead.", great... or you could just... I dunno, turn slowly. Slow smooth turning is something most of us will agree is important (sorry Jorghi), which is why we practice it. As eveyone says you have to practice to get better, you have to know what your weak points are and concentrate on them. I think it's not true to say that people will only practice smooth turning if they are 'forced' to by their cube. On the contrary the smoother the cube I find the nicer it is to turn slowly and so the easier it is to concentrate on your look ahead (I've never made so much progress on my F2L as when I got my new ZhanChi, which is just beautiful to turn gently and in a nice smooth flow).

5. "Beginners can't control a fast cube." People say that all the time. Here's what happens, the more you use a stiff cube, the more you rely on faces not turning unless you force them to. When you move to a faster cube you find that you were counting on the cube keeping itself in place, rather than you actually controlling it. Holding the cube properly so that you are in control of it is good technique, and not something you'll learn on a crappy cube. If you give a fast cube to a beginner early (I've done this and seen it with my friends) you get used to it very quickly, and you'll not be learning bad habits.

---

Some of the main reasons people don't want cubers to start with good cubes is, that they themselves either 1. didn't get a good cube until they were pretty fast, and think that what is best for them is best for everyone. 2. can't afford the latest cubes, so argue that people slower than them shouldn't have them either (Do people remember all the vitriol last year when beginners were found to be using Haiyan Memories (then the best cube, but quite expensive) "He shouldn't be using a Memory, he's not even sub-50!" - remember that one kid who was trying to scam/steal his classmate's Memory, because he couldn't afford his own and was much faster/'more deserving of it')

That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure more will come to me... as I'm sure you'll have noticed this is a subject I get quite passionate about :P
 
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Yay, i get to be the contradictor :)

I'm gonna use Breadan Vallance as an example. He started out with a rubik's brand and I believe his 1st or 2nd cube after that was a type c. He used a type c for a long time, making his turning accuracy much better. The next cube he used is the guhong, which he tightened so much it feels like a rock, but he turns more accurately than most and never pops. Why not use bad cubes to start, get your turning accuracy good, then go to a better cube and adjust it to your personal preference?
 
This may sound rediculous to some, but begginers should really learn some respect.
They won't appreciate it when their 2 minuite solve goes down to I don't know, 1:30?
But they will appreciate something like a 30 second solve going down to a 25.
Honestly, a well lubed rubik's brand isn't bad at all, for begginers..
One advantage is they don't know of anything better.
With my first cube, I had no idea it turned slowly. It didn't cross my mind that it could be faster.
*Changes to sarcastic old man voice* They won't know the difference!
 
They won't appreciate it when their 2 minuite solve goes down to I don't know, 1:30?
...
With my first cube, I had no idea it turned slowly. It didn't cross my mind that it could be faster.

I greatly appreciated it when my 2:30 went down to 1:15, it was very inspiring.
Do you think it was an advantage or disadvantage to have a slow cube?
 
Absolutely!

1. You'll save money because you will likely upgrade from a lower quality cube to a better one anyway.
2. I agree with previous posts... you will improve quickly like a lot of newer cubers. Don't give in to the corner cutting and too fast myths. ;)
3. I suggest getting the Dayan Lingyun II. It is my main cube and I also sell them.

(I know this was originally posted by a pro... but it's directed to those that are new.)
 
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A beginner should start with a "cheapo" cube and purchase better ones only when the need arises. For 3x3x3 at least. For larger cubes it makes more sense to buy a good one early on :)
 
I totally agree with Godmil on this (nice summary btw).

I actually tried to go with the general flow just lately and used a DaYan I as my main for 3 odd weeks.

So basically I went from using a LingYun to using the DaYan I. Big step back at first. After about a week I got better at using the DaYan I and was actually cooing about it here on the forums as if it were the best cube ever.

So a week or two ago, I got my LingYun vII and wanted to break it in a bit before going back to using the DaYan I. I absolutely hated the LingYun vII at first but couldn't pin down why. I tried comparing it to my 6 other DaYan cubes II though to 5 to get a better picture. It was then that I realized that the DaYan I had been forcing me to be more precise in terms of turning, but had also brought me out of synch with the rest of my DaYan kit. So I put the DaYan I back on the shelf and it has taken me a week to get used to my "faster" cubes again.

I don't feel as if my time with the DaYan I has taught me anything to make me progress to be honest though. Although the cube was a good companion at the time, I'll give it that.
 
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I do not think that a beginner should start on the best cube available. I do think that they should upgrade once they understand the things that they need to do to become a better cuber.

Example: You wouldn't teach someone on a really really good cube because that would spoil them into thinking that every cube was good. Yes, it would result in some bad habits like wristing and stuff, but after that person understands finger tricks and understands different things, then they could go to a good cube.

From personal experience, I had a transformers cube that I got down to about 50 seconds with using beginners F2L and 2 look OLL. Then I got a storebought and lubed it and got down to about 25-30 seconds. Once I got my Haiyan Memory (11 months into cubing), I realized how amazing it was and how lucky I was to be able to get a cube that good. I've been using that same cube for 6 months now and I still really like it.

People should have to go through some struggling to succeed I suppose, but I think that start in this case is a little bit ambiguous. Start in my opinion could be a couple weeks to a month or two.
 
most people start with a rubik's brand anyway.... but people used my cube and they're like "this thing's so fast, u cheat cuz it turns so good" other people just don't use a rubik's brand at all and only use my "fast" cubes....

and i had a rubik's brand until i was getting almost sub 45 averages then got the alpha 1 and now i can sub 20 it. its holding me back now....can't get sub 20 averages of 5, just used a friend's maru 3x3 yesterday and got sub 14 average of 50.... at least im gonna get a zhanchi in a couple weeks
 
I think it's fair enough to say that Rubik - the company that made the original design is worth giving them the $17 that the Rubiks Brand cube costs. Just for novelty sake.

Truth be told though, beginners shouldn't get a better cube until they learn to like speedcubing and wanting to pursue their ambition of becoming faster at it.

You'd never buy a brand new shiny pair of basketball shoes to a friend if you're not even sure he's even gonna like basketball.
 
I think it's fair enough to say that Rubik - the company that made the original design is worth giving them the $17 that the Rubiks Brand cube costs. Just for novelty sake.

Truth be told though, beginners shouldn't get a better cube until they learn to like speedcubing and wanting to pursue their ambition of becoming faster at it.

You'd never buy a brand new shiny pair of basketball shoes to a friend if you're not even sure he's even gonna like basketball.

Maybe, but if the better pair of shoes only cost a few dollars more, why not?
 
actually the better pair of shoes would cost less.... zhanchi is like 13 bucks from certain websites with free shipping. rubik's brand that i got was almost 20 bucks

My bad. Rubiks brand 3x3x3s only cost 13$ over here. But are you talking about 13 bucks for a ZC including shipping?
 
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