DNF or no DNF...?

[Georgeanderre]

Is this a DNF ... a centre cap comes out of the Eastsheen 4x4 but i continue to solve it without replacing it ...
is it a Double +2 a DNF or something else...?

Skip to about 5:50 if you dont want to watch me do an abysmal relay

 

[Zane_C]

If the center cap is not in place when you stop the timer, it is a DNF.

 

[hr.mohr]

You two should read the regulations:

5b5) If, after the solve, non functional parts of the puzzle are still defect (like a centre cap of a cube) or not fully rotated (like a 5x5x5 centre piece twisted in its spot), but the puzzle is otherwise unambiguously solved, the puzzle is considered solved. (discretion of the main judge)

 

[Georgeanderre]

I did take a quick look at them, ... Hence why I'm asking it here, I would say its just another +2 but I would be partial towards myself ...

 

[Zane_C]

You two should read the regulations:

5b5) If, after the solve, non functional parts of the puzzle are still defect (like a centre cap of a cube) or not fully rotated (like a 5x5x5 centre piece twisted in its spot), but the puzzle is otherwise unambiguously solved, the puzzle is considered solved. (discretion of the main judge)

I haven't watched the video, but isn't it different if the piece has "came out"?

 

[hr.mohr]

A cap is not a piece. No DNF or +2.

 

[Zane_C]

A cap is not a piece. No DNF or +2.

Sorry, I misinterpreted a center cap as being a center piece. :fp
Wow, I even wrote center cap and assumed it as being a center piece. This is quite stupid.

If the center cap is not in place when you stop the timer, it is a DNF.

 

[Maniac]

No penalty. But if two come out, then DNF.

 

[Tim Major]

No penalty. But if two come out, then DNF.

No, on a standard 3x3, you can have quite a few with it still solvable. 4 if you have the 2 remaining adjacent, as they can define orientation. If including corner and edge caps many more. I forget the number.

 

[danthecuber]

This happened to me at the newark competition. The center cap fell onto the floor, and when the cube was solved, I scambled to pick it up, but then the judge said I didn't need it, but I still lost 3-4 seconds :fp.

 

[Daniel Wu]

As long as it's unambiguously solved, it's solved no penalty.

 

[Dene]

"nothing", and feel free to read the regulations whenever you have questions regarding the official rules.

 

[peedu]

This happened to me at the newark competition. The center cap fell onto the floor, and when the cube was solved, I scambled to pick it up, but then the judge said I didn't need it, but I still lost 3-4 seconds :fp.

That's why you need to know the rules.

I was judging when a corner piece of a 3x3 twisted in place during PLL. Competitor, finished the solve, stopped the timer and started quickly to fix that. He should have fixed it before he stopped the timer. Then he would have lost couple of seconds, but now he got DNF.



Peedu

 

[anders]

This happened to me at the newark competition. The center cap fell onto the floor, and when the cube was solved, I scambled to pick it up, but then the judge said I didn't need it, but I still lost 3-4 seconds :fp.

This also happened to Iril during his 16/16 MultiBld WR. I was the judge, and when he fumbled after the piece, I told him that it was not necessary. Sometimes it is vital to know the rules!

 

[Stefan]

5b5) If, after the solve, non functional parts of the puzzle are still defect (like a centre cap of a cube) or not fully rotated (like a 5x5x5 centre piece twisted in its spot)

Too lazy to take this to the WCA forum, and since we're talking about it here anyway...

1. Center caps aren't non-functional. They might not have a function for the turning mechanism, but they're still telling a color, that is their function.
2. 5x5x5 centre pieces certainly aren't non-functional.

 

[Cubenovice]

Too lazy to take this to the WCA forum, and since we're talking about it here anyway...

1. Center caps aren't non-functional. They might not have a function for the turning mechanism, but they're still telling a color, that is their function.
2. 5x5x5 centre pieces certainly aren't non-functional.

Yes they do have a function but with one or two center caps off the puzzle can still be unamb...y solved.
Something to to with the centers being in fixed relative position etc etc

 

[cmhardw]

Too lazy to take this to the WCA forum, and since we're talking about it here anyway...

1. Center caps aren't non-functional. They might not have a function for the turning mechanism, but they're still telling a color, that is their function.
2. 5x5x5 centre pieces certainly aren't non-functional.

I agree that the wording involving the 5x5x5 twisted center pieces makes this rule sound confusingly unclear. I think this issue should eventually be brought to the WCA forum. I would like that line clarified for the 2011 version of the rules, personally.

 

[masterofthebass]

Why is it necessary to replace an unambiguous piece such as a 5x5 edge or a 7x7 oblique for a puzzle to be solved? I never understood why this is in the regs.

 

[oranjules]

do you mean a 5x5x5 wing ? because an edge would be DNF (and this is unambig...ly solved too, because you can't flip a single edge, and, if you didn't pop, the edge is oriented...)

 

[qqwref]

1. Center caps aren't non-functional. They might not have a function for the turning mechanism, but they're still telling a color, that is their function.

Come on, you know the WCA regulations are written vaguely and with mediocre English. Don't be an ass about it. If you've followed the discussions at all you know what this means ("non-functional piece" = "not part of the mechanism").


Going by the current WCA rules, a 3x3 needs to have only two adjacent centers in place. The situation for edge/corner caps is a lot more complicated. For the 4x4 caps, one pop is fine, but two+ is a DNF if you don't replace some of them.