What do you think in your opinion is the most useless WCA event.

[sa11297]

i think that fewest moves is good because it is a completely different approach than speed solving the cube. you plan it different and use a different method and it requires a different way of thinking.

 

[ianography]

i think that fewest moves is good because it is a completely different approach than speed solving the cube. you plan it different and use a different method and it requires a different way of thinking.

This is what event you hate...

Well, I hate magic.

 

[ChrisBird]

If forced to choose, I think people would just choose the one they find least appealing or the one they are the worst at. I know I've fallen into that trap a couple times when asked similar questions.

 

[cmhardw]

Ok, so this idea is not shelled out very well. Consider this an initial brainstorming / stream of consciousness post that people can refute / add to / etc.

I, personally, am tired of the repeated debates about adding / removing events coming up. These debates always boil down to some version of the following.

(Remove event X person) : Remove this event for [list of reasons].
(Pro event X person) : No way! I love this event! Don't remove it for [list of reasons]

The people wanting events removed usually list some version of the following reasons for event removal:
1) They want to add a new event that they like, and this must be at the expense of a current event*
2) Feel the event they want removed does not belong in the first place. In their opinion the event has little to no value, either to themselves or in their opinion to the community.

The people wanting to keep events on the chopping block generally:
1) Enjoy the event very much, despite popular opinion
2) Feel the event does add value, either to the community or to themselves

*This is due to the restriction that all events must be held at a world competition

My brainstorming idea is to basically have a form of "Division" system within competitive cubing.

My proposal of a Division system for competitive cubing
Examples of how this could work (these proposed divisions are open to debate):
1) Small cube speedcubing division (2x2x2 and 3x3x3)
2) Medium cube speedcubing division (4x4x4 and 5x5x5)
3) Big cube speedcubing division (6x6x6 and 7x7x7)
4) Non-cubic speedcubing division (clock, pyraminx, megaminx, etc.)
5) Mental division (fewest moves, blindfold)
6) Dexterity division (magics, feet, One-Handed)
7) etc.

Now, my idea is to give competition organizers the ability to restrict how many divisions a competitor may compete in at their competition.

Let's say that people may only register to compete in 3 divisions when competing at a world competition. For National level competitions this may be relaxed to 4 allowable divisions, or for local there may be no restrictions and you could allow all possible divisions.

So, for example, at a world competition that restricts to 3 divisions, then here are some example registrations:

Competitor A:
Registers to compete in the non-cubic division, small cube speedcubing division, and dexterity division.
This competitor would then be allowed to register for any or all of the following events:
1) 2x2x2
3) 3x3x3
4) clock, pyraminx, megaminx, etc.
5) Feet, one-handed, magics

Another competitor may register in only 2 divisions (they choose not to register in all 3 divisions)
Competitor B:
Registers for small cube speedcubing division, and mental division
This competitor may then compete in:
1) 2x2x2
2) 3x3x3
3) 3x3x3 fewest moves
4) 3x3x3 blindfold
5) big cubes blind
6) multi blind

And you get the idea.

This way, although more events are held at a world competition, people are forced to pick events that they enjoy more, or are better at.

This has some pros and cons:

Pro/Con analysis of a division system
I will add to this list if people will post ideas below my post.

Pros:
1) This will lead to fewer people competing in all events across the board at a World Competition. This allows events at a World competition to be run in shorter time frames, which will theoretically open up space for other events that don't currently exist in the WCA system. This way all events may still be held at the WC without extending beyond a 3 day time frame.

Cons:
1) Jack-of-all-trades puzzlers, or all-rounders would be forced to not compete in certain events at World or National competitions due to whatever the division restriction is at that competition. They would have to make up for this by competing in certain events only when they attend local competitions.

-------------------

Please add more to the list, but so far I think this idea has some potential, once it is worked through, to be a potential change to propose on the WCA forum for next year's changes (or 2012's, or 2013's)

 

[sa11297]

This is what event you hate...

Well, I hate magic.

maybe i didnt make myself clear. i meant to say that i liked fewest moves. thats what i meant when i said " i think fewest moves is good"


and good job cmhardw

 

[maggot]

i want to still compete in as much as i possibly can. for people such as myself, i am not given the opportunity to goto competition very often. while i see the potential to solve the issue at hand, it would for sure not benefit someone like myself. i think a more viable solution to the issue of adding events is to have groups of puzzles which are official and are optional and official and unoptional. for example, 2-5, 3bld, and whatever else events be official unoptional. these events will be held at worlds. then there will be official optional in which the optional events will be rotated every year at worlds (like a winter and summer olympics). in local comps you could do whatever and depending on the event holder could do whatever to organize the comp. but at worlds, having unoptional events and rotating optional.

2011= 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, etc. with optional mm, pyra, sq1, clock, feet
2012= 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 etc. with optional 7x7, big bld, skewb, FMC

i think it would be easier to distinguish which events were unoptional (number of times competed, percentage of participants registered in each event etc) and to split the remaining events in a similar fashion to still draw interest to worlds. the worst part of this is location to event. say big cube bld is my forte and worlds are in bangkok this year but next year its 20 miles from me. if they hold bigcubebld optional in bangkok, i'd lose out on a chance to goto worlds and compete in my event 20 miles down the road from me. if that makes any sense at all.

so, the solution doesnt really require removing any event to add a large amount of events. also at local comps, they can just do within their means to pull interest like how they already do.

 

[Jaysammey777]

I agree with you with feet,

but don't even mention skewb. I HATE THAT PUZZLE!!!

Most of the cubing community Has and likes this puzzle as much as others, so we may have a 1:5 ratio of people that dislike skewb to people that like it. (these are assumptions based off of imformation that I have) and It would be smart for WCA to make it official, or have people who make skebs pay WCA to include skewb so that there sales go up.

 

[Julian]

I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore for now, except for one thing.

Magic and Master Magic are the dumbest events but I believe they burn relatively more calories than the other events so there's a tiny bit of usefulness in there ;P

I'm willing to bet that 5BLD, MBLD, FMC, and possibly big cubes all burn more calories than Magic

 

[rock1313]

Now that I think about it, I should of put magic and master magic together.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I really appreciate both maggot's list and Chris's suggestion. I think maggot did a great job of describing the pros and cons for each event, and I think that summarizes well why it's somewhat difficult to justify removing any events. If Chris's suggestion is a way to keep people happy with keeping all these events, I'm okay with it, even if I am one of those who likes to compete in everything. I can understand maggot's problem with this, though - if you don't get to many competitions, it's sad that you can't compete in very many events. But there's always the possibility of hosting your own local competition with all the events you never get a chance to do, so maybe it's still not a problem.

I suspect Dan Cohen would be sad about Chris's approach, though. Dan really loves doing all events, and this would be a big disappointment to him. (I love all events too, but I admit the BLD events are way more important for me.) There are several people who are really good at almost all events (these people, for instance). Perhaps there should be a way to qualify to be allowed to compete in more than the 3 divisions? Or maybe it could be something like this: at big competitions, you're allowed to compete in any 2 divisions of your choosing, plus you can compete in any other divisions you qualify for (by being in the top x in the world at an event in that division - and that x could be very small if necessary, like top 10).

 

[Bryan]

Perhaps there should be a way to qualify to be allowed to compete in more than the 3 divisions? Or maybe it could be something like this: at big competitions, you're allowed to compete in any 2 divisions of your choosing, plus you can compete in any other divisions you qualify for (by being in the top x in the world at an event in that division - and that x could be very small if necessary, like top 10).

Why bother with divisions? Current regulations allow organizers to limit events. Divisions are just an ugly grouping that doesn't make sense (why is Pyraminx similar to Megaminx?) For somone who competes in just 3x3, Pyraminx, and Magic, that's spanning 3 divisions. And there's a huge difference between someone doing 3x3, Pyraminx, and Magic and someone doing 2x2, 3x3, Pyraminx, Megaminx, Square-1, Clock, OH, Feet, Magic and Master Magic.

Regulations already allow organizers to restrict events, and I've done that before (choose between 5x5 and Megaminx, but not both). People are always concerned about Worlds and making sure that all events can be held there. I think the fix for that is for people to realize that they aren't entitled to do everything. People at MOA complained about some of the cutoff times I had, but people need to start realizing that if you want to do a full average of 5, put some work into it. Also, the majority of competitions aren't Worlds or other major events, they're one-day regional events. They won't have all the events today, and they won't have all of them if new events are added.

 

[MagicYio]

Yeah, what he said.

 

[vcuber13]

People at MOA complained about some of the cutoff times I had, but people need to start realizing that if you want to do a full average of 5, put some work into it.

the cut offs werent that bad, at normal toronto comps the 5x5 cut off is about 2:15 usually.

 

[freshcuber]

the cut offs werent that bad, at normal toronto comps the 5x5 cut off is about 2:15 usually.

Really? That's fifteen seconds faster than the US Nats cutoff time.

 

[~Adam~]

Magic and master magic because if they were released today they would never become WCA events.

 

[vcuber13]

Really? That's fifteen seconds faster than the US Nats cutoff time.

if you dont believe me check, i got 2:22 both times at TOW and couldn't finish the average.

 

[freshcuber]

Man, that's rough. How many people are usually there?

 

[Mike Hughey]

Really? That's fifteen seconds faster than the US Nats cutoff time.

Most Toronto competitions are generally at the level of being like a "Canadian Nationals" competition - there are lots of really fast speedcubers, so cutoffs are generally at least as tough as at US Nationals. They're handling 100 people with a staff much smaller than US Nationals, so they have to make the cutoffs pretty tough. At the Toronto competition I went to, the cutoff for 5x5x5 was 2:15, I think, and there were 12 people who made the cutoff! I unfortunately did truly awful and didn't even come close.

 

[freshcuber]

Most Toronto competitions are generally at the level of being like a "Canadian Nationals" competition - there are lots of really fast speedcubers, so cutoffs are generally at least as tough as at US Nationals. They're handling 100 people with a staff much smaller than US Nationals, so they have to make the cutoffs pretty tough. At the Toronto competition I went too, the cutoff for 5x5x5 was 2:15, I think, and there were 12 people who made the cutoff! I unfortunately did truly awful and didn't even come close.

I knew they were large but I didn't know they were that large. I'll have to go to one since I'm ~4 hours from Toronto.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I knew they were large but I didn't know they were that large. I'll have to go to one since I'm ~4 hours from Toronto.

They're a great time - lots of fun and really well-run. As close as you are, you really need to go. (We spent Thursday night before the competition at a hotel in Buffalo, then spent Friday being tourists at Niagara Falls before heading to Toronto for the competition Friday night.)