Impact of color neutrality.

[Erik]

ok let me restart this thread with the word averages.

faz/rowe still have the fastest/Nar average with CN

Ahem.. ER beats Nar thanks very much ;-)

 

[Cubezz]

I'm colour neutral with the exception of 5 colours

Waffo wins this thread.
Anyhow, I am trying to become colour neutral. Well opposite neutral first.

 

[deadalnix]

I think if someone has an average over a second faster than everyone else, what he's doing obviously seems worth it.

CN isn't the only thing faz does. He does an XCross very consistantly and have a crazy TPS as well as a crazy fast recognition. Theyre is no evidence that CN is what's make faz so fast.

As an exemple, we tried with a friend to do the WR solve. Even afetr several tries, knowing pefectly the solution, we couldn't break the 8s (best of 8.05 for my friend).

Is something is certain, this is that CN doesn't make you 1s faster. Also, I find quite sad that ON isn't really considered in this thread. I really see the advantage of ON, especially when XCross is considered, but gap between ON and CN isn't obvious at all.

 

[EricReese]

When asked in the podcast what Faz himself thinks puts himself so far ahead of other cubers he says him being CN. and no, when I asked him about xcross he specifically said he only does an xcross 1/10 solves. he has crazy lookahead, and practiced a lot. Being CN means he has less moves to solve the cube.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

That argument (fewer moves) is weak since he had over a 50 move solution :/CN only saves cross moves (with your argument, anyhow) and that's what, 3 moves at the most? So you're talking less than half a second for him.

I think what's forgotten is that a nice advantage of being CN is that you have a better chance for a good start (which can definitely make or break a solve, especially at those speeds). I know when I have a great cross to first pair transition, with my usual look ahead, I'm around 17 or so. If I have a terrible transition, I can easily go over 20. That's why I suggested working on influencing the first pair with the cross, because it makes a huge advantage (in the very least you can still watch what you do to the cross and still know where your first pair is, which is great for those who struggle tracking a corner during the cross).

 

[EricReese]

How is it weak rofl. you save about 3 moves, and faz himself says that having an easy cross (being cn) makes lookahead into F2L so much easier. Lol

 

[FatBoyXPC]

See my edit, and two moves, really? That's a quarter of a second.

 

[EricReese]

I thought I typed 3. Cry

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Even still that's 0.38 of a second, granted this would make it over 7 seconds at that point but it clearly isn't the only thing that makes him fast. Having an easy cross isn't the only thing that can give you a better look into the F2L (such as stated in my edit). I feel like the advantages of CN have kind of been beat to death by other arguments, but I hope you'd agree that if Feliks or Rowe made a video of white/yellow cross only (or heck, even white only) they'd sub10 an average just as easily.

 

[EricReese]

Its called lookahead and them being able to turn at 8 tps.

 

[Kirjava]

Remember that thread where we talked about CN vs NonCN?

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Which has been said already countless times.

 

[Kirjava]

A lot of your comments have been as useless as Kirjava's recently.

 

[amostay2004]

It's stupid to argue CN vs non-CN really. CN is clearly better than non-CN. The only bad thing is that you can't start out as good as people with a fixed colour because it's that much harder to lookahead. But when you're at pro level, clearly lookahead doesn't pose a problem anymore as shown by faz/rowe/etc so there really isn't any disadvantage to CN. I'm not saying CN is that much better than non-CN, but if there're no disadvantages and you can save a move or two or get an easy x-cross every 10 solves, it does help.

What would be a better discussion is if it's worthwhile to switch to CN when you're already fast with sticking to one colour, in which case switching to opposite CN is probably the closest you can get to neutrality in solves, because switching to CN will be really, really hard.

edit: So if anyone is just starting to speedcube, the best advice would be to ask him/her to be colour neutral. It really pays off in the end.

 

[EricReese]

I mainly only do OH and it takes me like 30 seconds to inspect one color on my cube, I couldnt imagine doing that for all 6 sides during 15 second inspection. Just ridiculous

 

[RyanO]

30 second inspection time = DNF.

 

[deadalnix]

How is it weak rofl. you save about 3 moves, and faz himself says that having an easy cross (being cn) makes lookahead into F2L so much easier. Lol

1 move on average. 0.5 comapred with ON.

If CN is really faster, move count isn't the reason.

 

[EricReese]

1 move on average. 0.5 comapred with ON.

If Cn is really faster, move count isn't the reason.

Then it would be the freaking reason I also explained IN THAT VERY SAME POST. Easier cross means you can look into F2L easier.

Can we stop arguing about this subject? its rehtarded. If anything Id like to discuss this subject:

It's stupid to argue CN vs non-CN really. CN is clearly better than non-CN. The only bad thing is that you can't start out as good as people with a fixed colour because it's that much harder to lookahead. But when you're at pro level, clearly lookahead doesn't pose a problem anymore as shown by faz/rowe/etc so there really isn't any disadvantage to CN. I'm not saying CN is that much better than non-CN, but if there're no disadvantages and you can save a move or two or get an easy x-cross every 10 solves, it does help.

What would be a better discussion is if it's worthwhile to switch to CN when you're already fast with sticking to one colour, in which case switching to opposite CN is probably the closest you can get to neutrality in solves, because switching to CN will be really, really hard.

edit: So if anyone is just starting to speedcube, the best advice would be to ask him/her to be colour neutral. It really pays off in the end.

 

[deadalnix]

Obviously CN is better. Or at least equivalent.

The point is : NO, this is NOT what makes faz so fast. Neither Rowe.

 

[amostay2004]

Obviously CN is better. Or at least equivalent.

The point is : NO, this is NOT what makes faz so fast. Neither Rowe.

Of course it is not the main reason they're fast. There're just so many factors, and CN is but a small part of it. But hey, in cubing, every small thing makes you that much faster.