Haiyan Zhuang banned for 1-3 years

[Tyson]

Uh yes. The WCA delegates tried many time to have a civilized conversation. But after threats and accusations, it wasn't getting anywhere.

You make it sound like the WCA and the delegates didn't try to resolve anything.

I, of course, was not there in the beginning. But in my mind, this all started when Haiyan wanted to be a WCA delegate. And the existing delegates there said it wasn't a good idea because he has connections to the cube manufacturing companies and stood to directly profit from WCA competitions.

So really, there wasn't an issue with the WCA except that the delegates didn't find him to be the right person for the delegate position. And from there on, that's where the intimidation started. I think part of that was to attempt to make the WCA look bad as a way of saying, "Look, I'm not a delegate. Look what these fools the WCA appointed are doing?!?"

The whole democracy idea was pretty much a joke. He just wanted a vote because he knew he would win such a vote with his popularity. If democratically elected WCA officials was such an important point for Haiyan, then why aren't CCA officials democratically elected?

So really, I think the only real problem that Haiyan had with the WCA was that he wasn't made a delegate. And after that, I guarantee you the WCA delegates in China went out of their way to try and communicate with him. It just didn't work.

When you say, "Why don't you look at this from the CCA's point of view?" You realize, that's really just one person right? It's really just Haiyan and his friends. I guess I would say, "We might as well look at this from Dan Gosbee's point of view" as well right? But most people here are probably too young for that one.

 

[Kirjava]

It seems too convenient to me though, that Haiyan starts getting sub-30 second BLD solves in his own organization.

Oh come on, you know he's more than capable of that.

If people want to trust Haiyan and the CCA, well, there's really nothing I can do and nothing that I should do. I do see it a shame that people would trivialize the work done over the last 6 years by the WCA to ensure fair and open competitions though. We've done a lot of work to make competitions open and accessible to everyone.

No one can claim that the CCA has anywhere near the iron web of trust that the WCA does.

I don't think people should look down on CCA for having closed competitions though (although some of the comments that lie close to racism on mf8 are a bit much). WCA once considered something similar.

 

[Tyson]

Sure, he's more than capable of sub-30. And if he did it in a WCA competition, I wouldn't doubt it one bit. If the CCA doesn't have near the iron web of trust that the WCA has, then how could you trust a sub-30 solve from the CCA in a similar fashion?

In that sense, which is the legitimate world record?

 

[Kirjava]

You can still trust it. It might not be the same level of trust, you might still doubt it's legitimacy - but there is still the possibility of believing the solve is real.

As for which record being legitimate - they both are.

 

[qqwref]

I can't accept a world record as real if I can't trust that it was not cheated. This is for the same reason I won't accept random unofficial solves as the real WR. WCA has earned my trust many times over. If CCA ever wants to claim new WRs, they will have to do the same.

 

[freshcuber]

I mean no offense but if Haiyan was intimidating and threatening delegates then he clearly has no respect for them, or the rules they enforce (which does bring up doubts about the CCAs trustworthiness). At that point when it was clear he was becoming a menace I assume a higher power stepped in, you or any of the other board members.

I'm also starting to wonder if some of this wasn't preventable. I'm not laying blame on any officials here, I'm sure they did all they could, but when a competitor starts to show signs of hostility like he was action should have been taken sooner. This could have prevented, or atleast delayed, many of the current problems. I say delayed because the CCA was still more than likely to be founded. If actions had been taken sooner A 6 month ban or a lesser penalty than the one he recieved could have been issued. Despite Haiyans behavior he is still a fantastic cuber and it will be a loss if he decides to never participate in WCA events again.

 

[ElectricDoodie]

You don't just start something new because you aren't happy with what's out there. I think the cubers in our community need to ask the question, "Why was the CCA started?" If the WCA is doing such a bad job, and we have things in place that are really that unfair that the CCA needs to be started, then yes, we should have an immediate discussion to try to resolve this. But if the CCA was started because one person wasn't happy with the way some things were run, isn't that a reason to be suspicious of the motivations of the CCA?

Religion did and does that.

 

[Andreaillest]

Well, all I can say is that he gets what he deserves. He had the chance to man up and apologize, but refused. Very childish behavior for someone so well respected. I respect him as a cuber, but I have a hard time respecting him as a man.

 

[freshcuber]

You don't just start something new because you aren't happy with what's out there. I think the cubers in our community need to ask the question, "Why was the CCA started?" If the WCA is doing such a bad job, and we have things in place that are really that unfair that the CCA needs to be started, then yes, we should have an immediate discussion to try to resolve this. But if the CCA was started because one person wasn't happy with the way some things were run, isn't that a reason to be suspicious of the motivations of the CCA?

Religion did and does that.

Yea I saw that as well and was going to connect it to how America was founded because we didn't like how England was ruling but I decided to leave that alone since it was off-topic.

 

[Cow8Duck]

The site has an internal server error for me anyway.

But from what I've read is that he has made threats to WCA people, which if you think about is against the law so really it isn't a harsh punishment, it was probably that or off to jail.

 

[Deleted member 4527]

But from what I've read is that he has made threats to WCA people, which if you think about is against the law so really it isn't a harsh punishment, it was probably that or off to jail.

lolno, especially not in China

 

[Ron]

Hi all,

I am very sorry, but this is the way it has been going since Haiyan was not able or willing to see his own faults. He knew what he would do if we would not ignore his faults. Well, we did not ignore them. And from there it went the way that he wanted it to go. I do not like this situation, but there is no way that we could ignore his seriously bad behaviour. Even a one day ban would not have changed anything. Haiyan still has one month to come to new insights.

Dear WCA delegates and competition organisers in China,

You have my full support. You guys have been doing a great job and I am pretty sure that you will keep on working hard for the Chinese community. Please keep your positive spirit and attitude. Don't give up. Our mission is organising competitions to make people happy. Thank you very much!

Dear Haiyan,

Is there any way that we can reunite? I am not your enemy, no-one here is. I want to be your friend. Unconditionally. I have nothing against CCA. I hope CCA will create instead of destroy. Think carefully the upcoming month. The future is in your hands.

Good luck and have fun,

Ron

 

[scylla]

Today was the first competition in the new SCA (Scylla Cube Association)

World Records:

rubik singele: 6,45 (Scylla)
rubik average: 8,23 (Scylla)
rubik BLD: 23,18 (Scylla)
OH single: 9,99 (Scylla)
....

anyone doubt about it?
;:confused::confused::confused:

 

[Radu]

I don't know all the details of this incident(s), but I'm sure that the WCA has analyzed everything carefully and I fully trust their decision, even if apparently it seems harsh.

Since I first attended my first competition I realized that WCA is not (only) about records, WCA is about meeting new people, sharing ideas, show puzzles, having a good time, in a few words "TO HAVE FUN"!

Come'on, there will always be another chance for you to improve your record in another competition! And in the end....what's the fun to get a super-duper record of 15s bld...you can retire and that's it. It's more pleasure to beat it step by step in time, not in a few months. I really don't see why more rounds of bld were asked by him, but maybe we think differently.

Nothing compares with the atmosphere of the informal meetings in the evening and the good time with the other cubers. This is the spirit that Ron, Tyson and the others are trying to promote in the community not only to make a race for records. Apparently Haiyan is interested only in his personal success and the financial one! This is another big merit of WCA, no financial influences have interfered. I wouldn't wonder if this..."cca" will accept only Haiyan Cubes.

WCA is a great community now and i met GREAT people....so I cannot trust and accept something that is opposed to this. For me, CCA doesn't exist. The other cubers, especially the ones who competed in a WCA comp. who know the spirit of WCA should think the same way. Chinese cubers should boycott this "cca" invention and follow the WCA. I know it won't happen, but Haiyan should think again and turn back to WCA with apologies and come back in a year.

LE - a few posts have been posted meanwhile

 

[scylla]

good words Ron!

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Anyone find it weird that the last time a major ban like this happened was with a former BLD WR holder? Is it a cursed position or what?

I still think what happened in 2007 affected the community a lot more than this incident with Haiyan. It seems like individual/personal drama that was taken to a higher level. Is the "cubing community" limited to just those who were affected by Haiyan or do we have a say in it too? Can't the community have some say into what happens with the speedcubing community?

If I got into a physical fight with say, Lucas Garron, or something like that, and it was related to one of the competitions he was holding (but also related to some non-competition drama), would I be banned from competing for the next 3 years? If I were to be banned, wouldn't it make more sense to ban me from just the competitions that Lucas organized?

Lots of people in the cubing community have anger problems, and I'm sure there have been threats made before amongst individual cubers who may not like each other. Is that enough of a reason to ban someone for 3 years? That's all I'm saying.

There's still some major parts to the story that apparently (maybe conveniently) haven't been revealed due to safety reasons (if I'm understanding it correctly). I've read all the available back story on this and I'm not necessarily sticking up for Haiyan, but this raises concern as to what constitutes the "community" and who gets to decide which direction it goes in.

I don't understand why some people are thankful that they don't have to make hard decisions like this. Wouldn't you want to have a say?!

 

[Tyson]

I don't understand why some people are thankful that they don't have to make hard decisions like this. Wouldn't you want to have a say?!

The hard part isn't having your say. It's everyone who judges you about what you said afterwards. No matter what you say, you're going to have opposition. That part isn't fun at all.

 

[maggot]

You don't just start something new because you aren't happy with what's out there. I think the cubers in our community need to ask the question, "Why was the CCA started?" If the WCA is doing such a bad job, and we have things in place that are really that unfair that the CCA needs to be started, then yes, we should have an immediate discussion to try to resolve this. But if the CCA was started because one person wasn't happy with the way some things were run, isn't that a reason to be suspicious of the motivations of the CCA?

Religion did and does that.

for money. and haiyan is doing the same. i hate to make a poor argument to democracy in cubing delegate selection and US politicians. we have obama as a president. he is practically a celebrity and this is why he was elected, not to his relevancy to being responsible president. not to say that haiyan would not have the ability to be a delegate, however, it is in bad interest. haiyan is just like obama with we need to change the WCA and push issues to sway them in his favor since he is a top cuber. not to pull race into the issue, but many black americans chose obama not for his ability to be a president, but because he was black. and because they felt like he would stand up for african americans. many african americans are still blurting restitution jargon with hopes that a black president will listen. sorry for the kind of off topic, but i notice too much relevancy.
no matter how many threats and immature actions of persuasion he might have, he deserves nothing. if he wishes to start an unofficial league, do it. it would give them the opportunity to have their fun, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. haiyan thinks he can do whatever he wants. he can. but can he impact the WCA? probably not.

 

[scylla]

I don't understand why some people are thankful that they don't have to make hard decisions like this. Wouldn't you want to have a say?!

I was one of those. Let me explain why:

If I have to make these decisions, I have to know all details of what has happened, I should have talk to all participants and have to decide if a ban is necessary and if how long it would have to be. I don't have the time and energy for that to do. That's why Im glad that there are people who do this for me, people who made cubing more than a puzzle, who made cubing a community.

Its easy to judge at the side line with no responsibility. It's brave if you judge if its have to and when you have responsibility

 

[Vincents]

You don't just start something new because you aren't happy with what's out there. I think the cubers in our community need to ask the question, "Why was the CCA started?" If the WCA is doing such a bad job, and we have things in place that are really that unfair that the CCA needs to be started, then yes, we should have an immediate discussion to try to resolve this. But if the CCA was started because one person wasn't happy with the way some things were run, isn't that a reason to be suspicious of the motivations of the CCA?

Religion did and does that.

for money. and haiyan is doing the same. i hate to make a poor argument to democracy in cubing delegate selection and US politicians. we have obama as a president. he is practically a celebrity and this is why he was elected, not to his relevancy to being responsible president. not to say that haiyan would not have the ability to be a delegate, however, it is in bad interest. haiyan is just like obama with we need to change the WCA and push issues to sway them in his favor since he is a top cuber. not to pull race into the issue, but many black americans chose obama not for his ability to be a president, but because he was black. and because they felt like he would stand up for african americans. many african americans are still blurting restitution jargon with hopes that a black president will listen. sorry for the kind of off topic, but i notice too much relevancy.
no matter how many threats and immature actions of persuasion he might have, he deserves nothing. if he wishes to start an unofficial league, do it. it would give them the opportunity to have their fun, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. haiyan thinks he can do whatever he wants. he can. but can he impact the WCA? probably not.

Opinion. Support your opinion, or don't state it as facts.