PLL times vs average times

H - .9x
Ua- .8x
Ub-.8x
Z-.9x
Aa- .8x
Ab-.78
E- 1.3
F- 1.4
All G's 1.3x
L - .9x
J-.9x
Na-1.4x
Nb-1.4x
Ra-1.2x
Rb-1.4x
T-.8x
V-1.1x
Y-1.3x
 
Frog do you care to show your fingertricks for the G perms? Which N perms are you using? I just started using Rowan's and I'm sub 2.5 on both of them already, it's nice :D:D
 
(everything timed w/ stackmat)
Best avg5 - 13.67
Best avg12 - 14.76
Best avg100 - 15.95

PLL Time Attack - 45.77

Best PLL singles (in order):
Jb - 0.90
Ua - 0.96
T - 0.97
H - 1.09 (r2 R2 one)
Ub - 1.11
Aa - 1.19
Ja - 1.31
Ab - 1.31
Ga - 1.41
Gd - 1.41
Gb - 1.44
V - 1.50
Y - 1.52
Z - 1.59 (r2 R2 one)
Rb - 1.59
Gc - 1.80
E - 1.86
Ra - 1.90
Nb - 1.91
F - 1.96
Na - 2.00
Best PLL avg5's (in order):
Jb - 1.05
Ua - 1.09
H - 1.18
T - 1.19
Ub - 1.22
Aa - 1.22
Ab - 1.39
Ja - 1.45
Ga - 1.50
Gd - 1.65
Y - 1.65
V - 1.68
Gb - 1.71
Z - 1.77
Rb - 1.84
Ra - 1.99
Gc - 2.05
Nb - 2.10
Na - 2.14
F - 2.19
E - 2.22
 
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Averaging around 20 seconds on large averages, 18-19 on smaller ones.

PLL averages of 12 (with all the nasty fingertricks/algs, as well)
Weighted Average: 2.532
Aa: r' U r' y' L2 x U l' B' L2 y' L'2
Ab: l U' l y R'2 x U' r B R'2 y R2
E: r U R U' L' U R' U' L U R' U' L' U R U'
F: U2 r U' l U'2 r' U r' R2 U'2 R'2 x U' M'
Ga: R'2 u R' U R' U' R u' x' R2 u' R u
Gb: R' U' R y R'2 u R' U R U' R u' R'2
Gc: R2 u' R U' R U R' u x R'2 u R' u'
Gd: R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2
H: R' M' r U' R' M' r U'2 R' M' r U' R' M' r
Ja: L U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R
Jb: R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' U' L
Na: R U' R' U l U F U' l' U' l U' R U l' U R'
Nb: R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U l' U R' U' l U' R
Ra: L U'2 L' U2 L F' L' U' L U L F L'2 U
Rb: R' U2 R U'2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U'
T: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
Ua: R' M' r U M U2 M' U R' M' r
Ub: R' M' r U' M U2 M' U' R' M' r
V: R' U R' y U' l' F l' U' l2 F' l' U R U
Y: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'
Z: U M' U' R' M' r U' R' M' r U' M' U'2 R' M' r

Ordered by Speed:
Ub: 1.64
Ua: 1.76
H: 1.83
T: 2.14
Aa: 2.22
Jb: 2.27
Ja: 2.35
Z: 2.35
Ab: 2.41
Y: 2.54
Gb: 2.69
Gd: 2.78
V: 2.80
Rb: 2.81
Ga: 2.89
Gc: 2.93
E: 2.96
Ra: 3.11
F: 3.28
Na: 3.47
Nb: 3.91

Ordered by Turns Per Second (STM, R' M' r = 1 = M2). Big surprise.
Y: 6.69
T: 6.54
E: 5.41
V: 5.00
Rb: 4.98
Na: 4.90
Jb: 4.85
Ja: 4.68
Ra: 4.50
Gb: 4.46
Nb: 4.35
Gd: 4.31
Ub: 4.27
Z: 4.26
Ga: 4.15
Gc: 4.09
Aa: 4.05
Ua: 3.98
F: 3.96
H: 3.83
Ab:3.73
 
well, so far it seems that my PLL is about where it should be for my average time. now the question is: as i practice more and my times drop, will my PLL times drop a lot, too, or do my times drop after i practice my PLL? lol
 
fatboyxpc said:
Frog do you care to show your fingertricks for the G perms? Which N perms are you using? I just started using Rowan's and I'm sub 2.5 on both of them already, it's nice :D:D
Click to expand...

Hmm, I use the RUF N perm and for the Rowan N perm I discovered it myself :D, I made a thread on it somewhere, the alg is umm z U R' U' R U F R F' U' R' U R U' x' R U' R' U

And for the G perms I use the standard ones and I know 4 of the RUD ones to avoid AUF sometimes. But for the standard ones my fingertricks are the same I think? O:, I do u' for my thumb for one of them and I push with my index finger for the u for another. And G perms the ones that end with "y and a 3 move insertion" I use B U' B' and F' U' F. There's a lot of things like that.
 
How do you guys measure this?
I tried to measure a couple of T-perms myself using cubetimer.com (T is the one i think i can do quickest) but i never even get close to the kind of times you guys mention here. More like 2.50 or so. I know my fps is far from high but just pushing the spacebar, picking up the cube with both hands, putting the cube down and pushing the spacebar again costs me about .80 seconds.
 
Rudinie said:
How do you guys measure this?
I tried to measure a couple of T-perms myself using cubetimer.com (T is the one i think i can do quickest) but i never even get close to the kind of times you guys mention here. More like 2.50 or so. I know my fps is far from high but just pushing the spacebar, picking up the cube with both hands, putting the cube down and pushing the spacebar again costs me about .80 seconds.
Click to expand...


incessantcheese said:
which pll does it look like i need to execute better or even get a completely new alg for? for my execution times, i tried to start turning right when i let go of space and then hit as i finish turning, so it should be the actual execution time. these are my first 5 tries for each, so it takes into account about how often i would lock up trying to execute quickly.
Click to expand...
 
i average around 13-14 and i really suck at plls

Ua: 1.09
Ub: 1.15
H: 1.05
Z: 1.60 (lol?)
Aa: 1.38
Ab: 1.05
Ja: 1.15
Jb: 1.30
Ra: 1.35
Rb: 1.65
T: 0.95
Y: 1.20
E: 1.90 (rofl)
F: 1.45
V: 1.50
Ga: 1.50
Gb: 1.60
Gc: 1.40
Gd: 1.40
Na: 1.90
Nb: 1.90

yes... i really suck..
 
Normal 3x3 average is 15 seconds.

PLL averages and times in order of PLL attack execution.
A's
A(a): (1.33), (1.17), 1.29, 1.32, 1.20 = 1.27
A(b): (1.60), 1.57, 1.45, 1.53, (1.41) = 1.52
Don't really like A perms, my F2 always explodes when I do them.

E
E: (1.38), 1.23, (1.17), 1.30, 1.33 = 1.29
Recently switched to <RUD> alg, not that fast with it yet, PB single is 1.17.

H
H: (1.20), (1.00), 1.10, 1.04, 1.06 = 1.07
I suck at H perms. Nuff said.

Z
Z: 1.70, 1.65, 1.70, (1.82), (1.64) = 1.68
I also suck at Z perms. Using <R2U> alg that I found.

U's
U(a): (0.92), (0.98), 0.96, 0.96, 0.96 = 0.96
U(b): 0.80, (0.84), 0.77, 0.81, (0.74) = 0.79
U(b) is my fastest PLL. U(a) is probably my most consistent PLL :p

J's
J(a) (L): 1.37, (1.42), 1.26, (1.21), 1.29 = 1.31
J(b) (J): 1.09, (1.07), 1.11, (1.21), 1.13 = 1.11
Meh. Not the fastest, not the slowest. Own Ja (L) alg.

R's
R(a): 1.91, (1.95), (1.66), 1.81, 1.66 = 1.79
R(b): 1.35, 1.37, 1.39, (1.27), (1.52) = 1.37
Used to be my favourite PLL's, dont really like them now.

T
T: 0.99, (0.96), 1.04, (1.10), 1.08 = 1.04
One of my fastest. 0.99 was PB when I did it, then I beat it straight away with the 0.96 :)

F
F: (2.10), 2.07, 1.99, 2.01, (1.85) = 2.02
One of my slowest PLL's.

Y
Y: 1.71, 1.57, 1.54, (1.71), (1.48) = 1.61
Not one of my fastest. Don't really like Y perms.

V
V: (2.08), 2.09, 2.27, (2.30), 2.14 = 2.17
I. Hate. V. Perms. So. Slow.

N's
N(a): (1.60), (2.02), 1.60, 1.76, 1.76 = 1.71
N(b): 1.50, 1.60, 1.55, (1.63), (1.44) = 1.55
Pretty slow, but N(b) is one of my favourite PLL's. I don't get why people hate N perms.

G's
G(a): 1.75, 1.77, (1.54), (1.77), 1.66 = 1.73
G(b): (1.80), (1.46), 1.53, 1.60, 1.69 = 1.61
G(c): 1.65, 1.73, 1.66, (1.78), (1.53) = 1.68
G(d): 2.12, (2.26), 1.94, (1.81), 2.22 = 2.10
Not really that fast, G(b) is my favourite G perm.
Algs
A's
A(a): x z D' R D' r2 U R' U' r2 D2
A(b): x z D2 r2 U R U' r2 D R' u

E
E: x' z' R U' R' D R U R' D' R U R' D R U' R' D'

H
H: M2 U' M2 U2' M2 U' M2

Z
Z: U' M2 U' M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M2 U'

U's
U(a): R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2
U(b): R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'

J's
J(a) (L): y2 x r' U' r U r' U' L U r U' r2 F R U
J(b) (J): R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U'

R's
R(a): L U2 L' U2 L F' L' U' L U L F R2 U
R(b): R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U'

T
T: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'

F
F: R' U R U' R2 F' U' F U R F R' F' R2 U'

Y
Y: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'

V
V: r' F R F' r U r' F R' F' r U2 R U2 R'

N's
N(a): R U' R' U l U F U' R' F' R U' R U l' U R'
N(b): R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R

G's
G(a): R2' u R' U R' U' R u' R2 y' R' U R
G(b): F' U' F R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2
G(c): R2' u' R U' R U R' u R2 x u R' u'
G(d): R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2

In order of average speed

U(b): 0.79
U(a): 0.96
T: 1.04
H: 1.07
J(b): 1.11
A(a): 1.27
E: 1.29
J(a): 1.31
R(b): 1.37
A(b): 1.52
N(b): 1.55
G(b) and Y: 1.61
G(c) and Z: 1.68
N(a): 1.71
G(a): 1.73
R(a): 1.79
F: 2.02
G(d): 2.10
V: 2.17

In order of TPS:

U(b) = 13.92
T = 13.46
J(b) = 12.61
E = 12.40
U(a) = 11.46
N(b) = 10.97
J(a) = 10.69
Y = 10.56
H = 10.28 (6.54 STM)
R(b) = 10.22
N(a) = 9.94
Z = 9.52 (6.55 STM)
R(a) = 7.82
G(b) = 7.45
F = 7.43
G(c) = 7.14
A(a) = 7.08
G(a) = 6.94
V = 6.91
A(b) = 5.92
G(d) = 5.71

Yay for having 31 spoilers in a single post :)
 
Escher said:
The <R, U, D> G perm I use is R' U' R U D' R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'm switching to this. I'd tried all the French G's, but that was before I started using push/flick! R'U'R(UD')R2-U*R'URU'R(-)U'R2'D? Or you mean ah two no prime? With an AUF at the end, no second right-hand regrip with R2' seems good.

* is a notation I just made up for a push/flick, so U* is U with left-index push/flick (push here) and U'* is U' with right-index push/flick. (Maybe U# / U'# is clearer than two superscript symbols, but I feel like # should be reserved as a free marker to facilitate commenting. I'm using - for both right- and left-hand regrips, but that should usually be easy to figure out.)

Escher said:
Ra: R U R' F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U2 R'
Click to expand...
cool.

Escher said:
I'm thinking of making a PLL video with a fast execution of each and a slow exec with the alg...
Click to expand...
You're awesome.

Escher said:
Acw: 0.9x
Accw: 0.7x
Ucw: 0.69
Uccw: 0.68
Y: 1.04
V: .98
Ra: .96
Rb: .78
Ja: .88
Jb: .72
F: 1.2
T: .92
Ga: .96
Gb: .98 (RUD :D)
Gc: 1.2 (bleh)
Gd: 1.1
Click to expand...
(some omitted.) Impressive. Though, at your level, AUFs and rotations start to become quite important, especially for the cases above. For example, what do you for Acw with y2, no AUF? I use yRUR'F'RwUR'U'Rw'FR2U'R'or U'RUR'F'RwUR'U'Rw'FR2U'R'U instead of y2 Acw with combined rotation. Accw with y2 is even worse for me. What about the G's with y2, no AUF?

There certainly have been isolated developments in this direction, but I've seen no manifesto: for maximum automatism, PLL should be viewed as 21 case groups, each with a number of AUF/rotation-specific cases (minimum 4 e.g. for each N, maximum 16 e.g. for each G). I haven't seen any systematic analysis online. Some case groups are trivial (e.g. H: AUF first, one main algorithm), and in any case group, most cases will be reduced by a rotation or an AUF (possible both before and after the main algorithm) to at most a couple of main algorithm(s). The goal would be to have a (possibly multi-layered) recognition system that allows one to use a predetermined rotation/AUF/main-alg combination for every single case. Any more detail deserves a separate thread.

Escher said:
Well erm, I guess a good thing is to go back to the very, very basics and just analyse how you hold your cube, how you set you cube etc. Then go over through each alg and see if you're doing anything inefficiently or if there are better ways of approaching a turn or a slightly different grip. I find a good way is to practice like a musician practices scales: Do the alg 12 times slowly, if you get one mess up start again, then do it 12 times faster, if you mess up that fast you start from the beginning again, and get faster and faster from there. You can also try practising with stiffer cubes to build hand strength.
Click to expand...
Now, this is insightful. Thank you. I hate all the semi-automatic "practice!" replies and links to "practice!" compilation threads on this forum; the important question is how to practice efficiently. I might make a separate thread about this point.
 
Last edited:
macky said:
Escher said:
The <R, U, D> G perm I use is R' U' R U D' R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'm switching to this. I'd tried all the French G's, but that was before I started using push/flick! R'U'R(UD')R2-U*R'URU'R(-)U'R2'D? Or you mean ah two no prime? With an AUF at the end, no second right-hand regrip with R2' seems good.
Click to expand...

Are the French Gs all RUD?
 
Anonymous said:
Are the French Gs all RUD?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's their defining characteristic, at least the way I call them. If you move that D to the beginning, I'd still call it a French G.
Sébastien Felix's 2-handed PLL
By the way, his R-OLL is an example of a layered-recognition system I mentioned. Figure out (or control) the corner permutation during OLL. For the adjacent-swap PLL case groups, place the two good corners on the left first to determine the case.
 
When I averaged about 35 seconds my PLL's were about 2.5-4.0, with the average being 3.2. Now I average about 25 seconds and my PLL's average about 2.5, with a range of 1.6-3.2. I never do PLL time attacks or really work on them that much, so I guess it's just improved naturally up to this point. My only problem is that when I do practice them it is pretty clean, but in an actually solve I think I average about 3-3.5 seconds because it is really sloppy. I get my desperate fingers and it feels like I lose a second or too on the LL.

Doing 2-look OLL seems like it's slowing me down more on my LL than PLL.
 
Your T perm is like 1.47 or something, and your F perm is like 3.01

If you do an F perm with the bar on the left, do

R' U' F' then T perm it but instead of the F' at the end, do U R so basically its 5 quick moves extra and its pretty pretty damn easy to get sub 2 with it.

Just saying, its a very nice alg
 
OMG I just spent all of last week getting used to a new F perm (from Breandan's new video) then I find out about that one with the T perm in it and it's faster for me after 5 attempts. Thanks Eric, great find.
 
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