[WR] Feliks Zemdegs 9.21 3x3x3 average

Dene said:
StefanPochmann said:
joey said:
teller said:
He has an enormous edge.
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I want to see him do an average on a fixed colour. (green colour)
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Me, too. Good suggestion. Average of 100 after practice would be interesting. And repeat for the other colors... who knows, maybe it differs and he just never tried to find out...
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To be honest, it's comments like these that make me feel like no one understands what it is like to be colour neutral.

When you are colour neutral, you don't even see the colours. Like seriously, a bit of practise on a cube with a 6 random colours (purple, gold, silver, black, pink, grey, or something like that), and it wouldn't make a difference to a colour neutral person. The colours just act as a guide to the patterns, or something like that. Don't ask me to explain it any clearer than that because I have tried and failed many times to think of a better way. Any difference in performance on a particular colour would be insignificant, and would only come to significance with larger N.
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I think you misinterpreted. I didn't at all suggest that he'd be faster or slower using a fixed cross, or that he'd be faster with some color than with another. I don't suggest or claim anything like that, quite the contrary - I want to find out! What I do claim is that we don't know for sure. Your explanation is very welcome and quite possibly you're right, but *how* do you know? What speaks about actually measuring it? Aren't you the least bit interested in finding out for sure, with actual experiments rather than faith? Or have you done it already? Has Feliks? I would love to see the results, I haven't seen anything like it yet.

You say "When you are colour neutral, you don't even see the colours". Well, most of the time I don't realize how bright or dark my environment is (as long as it's not clearly too dark or too bright), but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter! So I cannot be sure until I actually properly test it. That's really all I'm asking for here, and my above post was just a suggestion for *how* to do it properly, should he decide to do it. Cause when he just does for example an average of 12 with fixed green cross then that doesn't tell us anything useful. It should be a longer average to fight fluctuations, he should practice beforehand to get used to being forced to use hard crosses, and he should repeat with all colors to really rule out biases. Of course there would still be fluctuations and the results shouldn't be overvalued, but I *would* find it quite interested to see how an actual experiment turns out. I would do the experiment myself if I were color neutral, but, well, I'm simply not.

Finally, if you still mind the idea... how about just considering it a test of how color neutral someone really is, rather than considering it a test of what color neutrality entails?

Edit: Oh and... joey's point of course was to find out how right or wrong teller was suggesting color neutrality provides an "enormous edge". I followed, suggesting more details. So if you want to blame someone for making a claim...
 
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joey said:
I doubt that Dene, I don't think you could slam a cube with random stickers in a random order.. and expect Faz/Rowe to be sub-10. (or you, dene, to get your usual times!)
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That's another good idea (assuming you meant random color scheme and not randomly putting the 54 stickers on, probably creating an unsolvable cube).
 
Mr. Pochmann: Indeed I have tried this, or at least, people often say "do an avg X on X colour". So I do, and I find that I average about the same as usual as long as I don't get a whole lot of crappy crosses.

Naturally if Feliks is up for it then he can feel free to do so. But I'm 100% certain that the results will show nothing of interest.

Joey: Once they get used to the new colours, I'm pretty sure there would be no difference. I see no reason why there would be.

I think a lot of being colour neutral is the hands "knowing" where colours are relative to each other, but not the consciousness registering it. This is the only explanation I have for the problem: why is it that a CN person knows which pairs to make when they have no idea what their cross colour is?

EDIT: Oh and Mr. Pochmann, I didn't I misinterpret you. I just assumed your intentions [interest in the results of such an experiment] and tried to supply the answer for you. ^_^
 
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Oh also, sorry here are the scrambles. I should have put these up straight away:

1. B F U2 L2 R2 F' U2 R2 B L' U B2 L' F L' R' D2 U' B F
2. R2 D R2 U' R2 F2 D' U' F2 U L' U' L' B2 L' B' L2 D' B2 U
3. D R2 F2 U2 F2 D' R2 U' F2 U F2 R U' F L2 B2 L B' F R2 F2
4. R2 F2 U2 L2 B2 U2 R2 U2 L' R' U' L' R D L' U B2 F L2 D
5. L2 B2 D2 R2 B' U2 R2 U2 F L U' L' R2 B' F2 L' R2 D2 R' B'
 
joey said:
I doubt that Dene, I don't think you could slam a cube with random stickers in a random order.. and expect Faz/Rowe to be sub-10. (or you, dene, to get your usual times!)
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I disagree. If I had random colours on my cube I'm pretty sure I could just perform as usual. If you are crazy fast like Faz maybe not, but it doesn't really affect me at all. I work out the colours as I go along and they are a "guide to the patterns" as Dene says. Sorry banana.
 
I could average just the same times on Japanese colour scheme as with the normal colour scheme(although took me around 12 solves to get used to it initially) but I'm not anywhere close to being colour neutral.

EDIT
Just for the record, 12 average on just white cross, 15-17 average while colour neutral.
 
Dene said:
Indeed I have tried this, or at least, people often say "do an avg X on X colour". So I do, and I find that I average about the same as usual as long as I don't get a whole lot of crappy crosses.
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Nice to know that you did, but such a conclusion without details isn't worth much. How long was the average, how much did you practice it, what is "about the same as usual"? And those crappy crosses... well guess what, fixed-crossers do get them. Quite often compared to neutrals, I imagine. So that's specifically one thing I'm interested in to find out. Teller said neutrals have an "enormous edge" because of the cross choice, and I'd simply like to know just how "enormous" or not it really is in practice.

Dene said:
Naturally if Feliks is up for it then he can feel free to do so. But I'm 100% certain that the results will show nothing of interest.
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No, the results would be interesting whatever they are. Little or large or no differences at all... that's all interesting. Like I said, I'm just interested in finding out. If the results confirm what you're saying, I will be just as pleased as if they don't.

Dene said:
EDIT: Oh and Mr. Pochmann, I didn't I misinterpret you. I just assumed your intentions [interest in the results of such an experiment] and tried to supply the answer for you. ^_^
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Ok... well I referred to "it's comments like these that make me feel like no one understands what it is like to be colour neutral" regarding my
- Average of 100 after practice would be interesting.
- And repeat for the other colors... who knows, maybe it differs and he just never tried to find out...
The first part of this suggestion was designed to get stable (AO100) and meaningful (being used to being forced to deal with bad crosses, like we fixed crossers are) results. The second part is mainly to ensure credibility of the first part, to rule out color biases (though I'd be just as interested if they detect he does for some reason have a bias). I'm not neutral myself but I've seen explanations (including yours) before. So I understand that true neutrality is supposed to give equal results for all fixed crosses. But how do you know that someone really has true neutrality? Even with the explanation that you're just seeing patterns... maybe brighter or more saturated colors stand out more and somewhat help and introduce a bias that way. And that could differ from person to person.
 
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