Problems with teens

[PEZenfuego]

If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite number of worlds containing an infinite number of combinations of atoms.

The universe is not infinite.

Prove it. Nobody knows, and nobody can know.

I believe that it is finite. You can't prove it false but that is incredibly hard to wrap your mind around. Not to mention that it contradicts the Big Bang Theory. If the universe was infinite, then that means that there is another planet that is a perfect clone of our planet right down to every cell and every molecule. That's because the amount of matter and life on Earth is certainly finite.

Even though the probability is almost 0, when paired with a universe where matter is infinite...doesn't that make it a sure thing?

 

[Zane_C]

I know, this is an on going debate, don't we all get fustrated?

The universe is expanding and it is not infinite, but it's so big you may aswell call it infinite.

Ok, I don't know how much of you all know about history, but a few hundred years ago bible based religeons claimed that the moon was perfectly smooth and the sun orbited the earth. Infact they even thought stars were painted in the sky by god and the earth was only several thousands of years old.
As soon as Galileo Galilei pointed his telescope to the moon in 1609, he realized it had mountains just like earth and was not smooth at all. He also stated that the Earth orbited the sun, not the other way around.
The catholic church were proven wrong, so they changed their text books and went with the flow, this is what religeon does, it has always changed to fit in.
The old bible testiment said that all homosexuals should burn in hell, why does this not fit in with modern bible religeons?

I am saying all this to point out that religeon changes once they've been proven wrong, I truely wonder what will happen if life outside earth is discovered.
Now that is what I'll love to see, the bible being proven completely wrong.

Then again, religeon will get around it.

Sincerely Zane Carney, not "Zane guy"

 

[Muesli]

The catholic church were proven wrong, so they changed their text books and went with the flow, this is what religeon does, it has always changed to fit in.

Lol, no. They tortured Galileo and put him under house arrest until he died because they didn't like his ideas.

 

[aronpm]

I get extremely frustrated with this kind of 'opinion imperialism' that is present in both camps. Since the issue of existence is opinion it seems very arrogant to go around telling people that they are completely wrong.

This is exactly why I consider myself an 'agnostic atheist'. I understand that the existence of gods cannot be (dis)proven, but I do not believe that they exist. I am sick of seeing people saying "God is real, non-believers are heretics" just as much as "God is a lie, you're all ignorant idiots."

Although, I very much dislike organized religion, mainly because of the extent of power they receive in politics. Think of how much Christianity is embedded into the government of the USA, despite the Founding Fathers forming a secular nation. If an organized religion can gain such a strong foothold in a nation that was built on secular values, I worry about how strong it can become in other nations.

If someone does believe in a god or gods, they should do some philosophical thinking and determine what THEY think faith is about, not learn from books whose meaning have been lost in translation and selective editing. If people were to do this, instead of blindly accepting the religion forced onto them by parents and the community, I believe that people would be smarter, more open-minded and more tolerant of others.

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

 

[Muesli]

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

There is next to no evidence for a finite universe either.

 

[Owen]

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

There is next to no evidence for a finite universe either.

We can estimate the size of the universe by comparing it's rate of expansion and age.

 

[Edward]

These debates go nowhere. Neither of the numerous parties will ever agree on anything. If nothing can be proven, how can you argue about it? When nothing can be proven, it comes down to what you truly believe in, and no amount of arguing or discussion will sway that (99%of the time). With no facts it just becomes a game of "I'm right because you cant prove xyz" "No I'm right because you can't prove zyxz". I'm not saying its always like this, but that's basically whats happening here.

 

[Escher]

These debates go nowhere. Neither of the numerous parties will ever agree on anything. If nothing can be proven, how can you argue about it? When nothing can be proven, it comes down to what you truly believe in, and no amount of arguing or discussion will sway that (99%of the time). With no facts it just becomes a game of "I'm right because you cant prove xyz" "No I'm right because you can't prove zyxz". I'm not saying its always like this, but that's basically whats happening here.

Welcome to religious debate.

 

[bwatkins]

You seem to be saying that the site has flaws, what about the bible?

If you have to determine which is more legit:
The website, which has very few flaws,
or the Bible, nearly every word

What is more logical?

I'm sure the site has some flaws, but you will find more right then wrong.

In the end it all comes down to this:
A debate between Fact and Faith.

Again, which is more logical?
Proven facts? or faith with zero evidence?

For me, Fact beats Faith

You make a good point, but what facts exactly are you talking about? The scientific fact / statistic / evidence that definitively proves our existence without God?...that doesn't yet exist my friend, so these "facts" you speak of are really just dancing around the overall goal of proving God inexistent.

but for the mean time there is nothing that can prove god exists.

Nothing can 100% prove that he doesn't exisit either.

These debates go nowhere. Neither of the numerous parties will ever agree on anything. If nothing can be proven, how can you argue about it? When nothing can be proven, it comes down to what you truly believe in, and no amount of arguing or discussion will sway that (99%of the time). With no facts it just becomes a game of "I'm right because you cant prove xyz" "No I'm right because you can't prove zyxz". I'm not saying its always like this, but that's basically whats happening here.

True we may not agree, but it's not about converting one another so much as having a constructive conversations about our origins. None the less it is slightly educational.

 

[fanwuq]

These debates go nowhere. Neither of the numerous parties will ever agree on anything. If nothing can be proven, how can you argue about it? When nothing can be proven, it comes down to what you truly believe in, and no amount of arguing or discussion will sway that (99%of the time). With no facts it just becomes a game of "I'm right because you cant prove xyz" "No I'm right because you can't prove zyxz". I'm not saying its always like this, but that's basically whats happening here.

You are right. The point of these debate is who can make the coolest arguments. No one really cares about convincing others; it's more about good debating technique.

And if you want evidence of god then look threw a Bible and you will see a lot of things it says has happened.

Please prove to me that the entire content of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows didn't actually happen. If you haven't actually read the book, here are just a few non-spoilers that I want you to prove aren't true.
-Hagrid is a real person, and is half giant
-Voldemort is a real person and uses his real magic wand to kill people
-The very real invisibility cloak allows whoever wears it invisibility.

Please prove to me that any of the above are false. I have all 7 Harry Potter books by my side waiting to refute you.

Yes, your post was not even worth making a new argument.

You know that the probability of life happening spontaneously via the creation and proper combination of amino acids is incredibly improbably.

You clearly have no concept of how large the universe is, how old it is, or how large numbers works. Even if something is extremely improbable, with enough time and enough trials it is bound to happen.

Most scientists don't have any faith in this theory. Most scientists believe that the only sensible way that life could come to be about is through a force that no longer exists or is no longer effecting Earth in such a way as to create life.

[citation needed]

This post wins.

 

[Muesli]

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

There is next to no evidence for a finite universe either.

We can estimate the size of the universe by comparing it's rate of expansion and age.

We can guess. We have no idea how long those galaxies have been moving for, if they are slowing down or speeding up or where they came from. All we know is that they're all moving away from something and the ones furthest away are the fastest.

 

[Deleted member 2864]

But what if you've already done some research, and you want some help from the forums?


And everyone bashing nlcuber about correcting people's grammar, I agree what he's doing is not necessary, but so what?
I looked through the links someone gave of nlcuber repeatedly correcting people, and in none of them did the person get angry about being corrected.

Why are you getting mad about him correcting people?
It's not hurting anybody and he's not doing anything wrong.
Only reason I agree on is, if he only makes a correction, and doesn't contribute to the thread. That would be a waste of a post.

If you think about it, you're doing the same thing nlcuber is - being bothered by a little something someone said.

If you want some help on the forums, then by all means, get help My statement on lmgtfy wasn't of serious nature.

Well, I thought somebody would reply saying exactly what you said. It's a good point, except my post correcting him making corrections is not fully about his habit. What I meant to do with that post is to keep him from making more useless posts. While this doesn't contribute to the thread, maybe he'd quit the habit. That, I think still contributes to a person's habits for the forum.

Also, seeing as this has become a debate of belief, I just have to say something. I was taught that to appreciate faith, you don't know, you believe The forming of the universe, evolution, and closed/open universe model are all theories. While I find myself swayed by science, I keep in mind these are only theories. I doubt the will be proven wrong/right anytime soon. While I may believe in some of this, I still think there's a divine force out there.

I'm influenced by science, but I still believe.

 

[Sandbest]

As soon as Galileo Galilei pointed his telescope to the moon in 1609, he realized it had mountains just like earth and was not smooth at all. He also stated that the Earth orbited the sun, not the other way around.

First of all, I don't know anything about history, but I do know something about physics. But I get the impression you don't (actually) know anything at all about these subjects (first the "Global Warming" and now this).

It's true Galileo did get trouble with the Catholic Church, but not "Galileo stated that the Earth orbited the sun", but that was Nicolaus Copernicus in 1543 and he only got some resistence from some protestants.

 

[metal_cuber]

i was told by family that the pentagram was satanic, therefore i shouldnt wear the heartagram. i found out that the reason the pentagram is satanic is because it was used by pythagoras and his followers. and it was not used by them for satanic worship but to study as it had many mathematical things about it including the golden rectangle. since the church doesnt want you to beliewve fact they said that both the scientists and the symbol were evil and/or satanic

 

[Logan]

I would love to see the end of the universe! Just this huge black wall of some matter. Or we just go into infinite white nothing. How do you guys think the universe would stop? I know it's impossible to comprehend, but try

 

[JLarsen]

I don't believe in believing in anything. I don't like being told what to do, especially by people who refuse to accept evidence. I'm not going to try and stop other people though, as that just causes problems.

You have a point, I can't think of any religeon that provides good evidence, some one do tell if you have evidence!

People turn to religion to give explanations to the inexplicable, specifically the great question of where we came from, and the purpose of their lives and such. Nobody turns to religion because they saw some astounding evidence supporting a certain religion. That's why there are unfathomable amounts of religions on the planet.

 

[Deleted member 2864]

I would love to see the end of the universe! Just this huge black wall of some matter. Or we just go into infinite white nothing. How do you guys think the universe would stop? I know it's impossible to comprehend, but try

There's the closed universe model, which suggests that the universe goes through cycles of expansion, then eventually slows down. After that, it collapses and a cycle will eventually start again. If this theory is correct, then there is an end to the universe I guess...

 

[DavidWoner]

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

There is next to no evidence for a finite universe either.

Except the laws of physics. If you believe the universe is infinite then you cannot believe that the Big Bang happened.

I would love to see the end of the universe! Just this huge black wall of some matter. Or we just go into infinite white nothing. How do you guys think the universe would stop? I know it's impossible to comprehend, but try

No such thing as "white nothing" either. For it to appear white that would require some sort of light source, aka something, aka not nothing.

 

[Muesli]

@Musli: I'm going to ignore your statements about an infinite universe. It may sound good for an early-twentieth-century scifi book, but as a cosmological model, it's severely lacking in credible evidence.

There is next to no evidence for a finite universe either.

Except the laws of physics. If you believe the universe is infinite then you cannot believe that the Big Bang happened.

If energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, that must mean that there never was any in the first place. The laws of physics seem to not support a big bang universe either.

 

[Cride5]

These debates go nowhere. Neither of the numerous parties will ever agree on anything. If nothing can be proven, how can you argue about it? When nothing can be proven, it comes down to what you truly believe in, and no amount of arguing or discussion will sway that (99%of the time). With no facts it just becomes a game of "I'm right because you cant prove xyz" "No I'm right because you can't prove zyxz". I'm not saying its always like this, but that's basically whats happening here.

Welcome to religious debate.

Well I guess we can all agree that its impossible to prove that (1) God does exist or (2) God doesn't exist.

When making my choice between believing (1) or (2) above, I'll just go with the most plausible option.

No prizes for guessing which one that is :rolleyes: