Should Face Turning Octahedron Be Added to the WCA?

[gsingh]

I know there was a thread made about this like 7 years ago, but it has gained a lot of popularity since that thread was made. It is now being held at a lot of comps as an unofficial event. So what do you guys think?

 

[PyrbatNeoxi]

FTO has always been at least a bit popular

the problem with adding events based on popularity is that event popularity comes and goes. it makes sense to hold them unofficially, but it requires a lot more commitment to hold them officially, and the interest in FTO may be as fleeting as the kilominx, or redi cube, or curvy copter, etc

especially because adding new events tend to cause smaller misc events to recieve less attention (sq-1, clock, skewb are good examples), it's gonna be a very hard sell to add any event whatsoever. notice how events are removed more often than not

 

[turtwig]

Personally I don't see events being added in the near future if ever. Official events are already pretty set in stone (iirc Skewb was added in 2014, 8 years ago). The more time that passes, the more ingrained they become. Most people will spend most if not all their time practicing official events, since the "payoff" more being good at unofficial events is so much lower (and the effort is especially high if it's not similar to existing events). The theory and methods for new puzzles will be very limited because the incentive to invest time in developing them is so low. In my opinion, people with the influence on these types of changes are probably even more biased towards existing events (for example, a lot of people that have influence or power in the WCA used to be highly competitive in at least one event, so naturally will be biased towards those existing events and probably have not spent much time learning unofficial events). I don't see any event getting enough attention to warrant serious consideration of adding it. Which event to add would have to be arbitrary since as far as I know, there's no unofficial event that is much more popular than the others and none are even close to the popularity of official events. I also don't know of any unofficial event that would add an appreciable amount of variety to the WCA. Virtually all puzzles boil down to some combination of block building and algorithms. Even within official events there are many that don't add a lot of variety. For example, if 5BLD were not an official event already, I don't think anyone would seriously consider adding it. Same probably goes to 6x6 and 7x7, potentially even OH.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

nopen't |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 99%
yesn't ||||||||||||||| 105%

 

[qwr]

Yes, I've always been in favor of WCA being inclusive of more events. (Merge this thread with a previous FTO thread?) Many comps already don't do big cubes and blind so no harm with another event if they want to leave off FTO that's their choice. Also since feet was removed (rip) we haven't added an event since. Get rid of 4bld or 5bld or 7x7 if you have to lol

 

[Tabe]

Until there's something resembling decent hardware that doesn't (basically) require modification, I wouldn't even consider adding FTO. I'd much rather add master pyraminx.

 

[OreKehStrah]

Until there's something resembling decent hardware that doesn't (basically) require modification, I wouldn't even consider adding FTO. I'd much rather add master pyraminx.

Hardware shouldn’t be a consideration. Clock, skewb, and squan had terrible hardware for years. Skewb got added with terrible hardware and then hardware improved after it became official.

 

[DuckubingCuber347]

Until there's something resembling decent hardware that doesn't (basically) require modification, I wouldn't even consider adding FTO. I'd much rather add master pyraminx.

Master pyraminx doesn't have the greatest hardware. I have the Lefun and it's barely usable. The Qiyi is better but it needs a lot of work. Hardware will only improve so much if it's not in the WCA because there is simply not much point from a marketing standpoint.

I would rather have 4x4 OH as an event because I think unlike 3x3 OH, 4x4 OH actually adds a lot of challenges. Given that it takes a much longer time to turn the puzzle and you have more layers to manipulate I think efficiency becomes very important and we could possibly have additional methods open up. We already have sufficient hardware with the YJ mini 4x4 if that's a concern but modern flagships are still viable if you are concerned with hardware.

The only con I can think of is that it's just another NxN addition, something the WCA doesn't particularly favor. But like I said, I think 4x4 adds enough flavor and challenges to justify its similarities.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Master pyraminx doesn't have the greatest hardware. I have the Lefun and it's barely usable. The Qiyi is better but it needs a lot of work. Hardware will only improve so much if it's not in the WCA because there is simply not much point from a marketing standpoint.

The difference between master pyraminx and FTO hardware seems to me to be massive. My master pyraminx (I'm not sure what it is - maybe it's a ShengShou? I bought it several years ago) is better than most of the regular pyraminxes I've ever owned. It's far from perfect, but it's really quite decent, and I've done no modding to it. From what I've seen, though, FTOs are almost all as bad as the terrible one I have (a LanLan, I think - my hands are usually in pain after I've done a single solve with my FTO) unless they are modded.

It seems to me that FTO has a much bigger group of advocates than most of the other puzzles being considered, and this interest has lasted and seemingly grown for several years now. I think that is amazing given the poor quality of the hardware. I can't help thinking its popularity would explode if only we could get a decent mass-produced version of it.

 

[abunickabhi]

FTOs are still not available in India unless you are willing to pay for insane amount of international shipping and customs!

anyway, FTO is a cool proposal for new WCA event. It will not be there in India comps as getting FTOs in India is infeasible.

 

[Garf]

GAN FTO. I am calling it.

 

[gsingh]

GAN FTO. I am calling it.

With corner core magnets and maglev and a ges pro system
honey comb design with a price tag more than its weight in grams

 

[Thom S.]

FTO is a fun event, but it is a face turner, just like 3x3, 4x4, 5x5...
We also have (deep cut) Corner turners Pyra and Skewb and Whatever Sq-1 counts as.

Many people therefore suggest an Edge Turner as this would always add a lot.

 

[Tabe]

Hardware shouldn’t be a consideration. Clock, skewb, and squan had terrible hardware for years. Skewb got added with terrible hardware and then hardware improved after it became official.

For me, it is a consideration. No doubt hardware would get a lot better in a hurry were it to be added, however.

 

[Tabe]

The difference between master pyraminx and FTO hardware seems to me to be massive. My master pyraminx (I'm not sure what it is - maybe it's a ShengShou? I bought it several years ago) is better than most of the regular pyraminxes I've ever owned. It's far from perfect, but it's really quite decent, and I've done no modding to it. From what I've seen, though, FTOs are almost all as bad as the terrible one I have (a LanLan, I think - my hands are usually in pain after I've done a single solve with my FTO) unless they are modded.

It seems to me that FTO has a much bigger group of advocates than most of the other puzzles being considered, and this interest has lasted and seemingly grown for several years now. I think that is amazing given the poor quality of the hardware. I can't help thinking its popularity would explode if only we could get a decent mass-produced version of it.

Yeah, there's no comparison between FTO and master pyraminx in terms of hardware. Even the worst flat-faced master pyraminx (Lefun) is a lot better than the LanLan FTO. The Qiyi master pyraminx is significantly better (though not great).

 

[abunickabhi]

A good video that shows us key points as to why FTO deserves official attention and needs to be added to the WCA event list.

 

[Sub1Hour]

This may be a little bit of a necro post but FTO seems to be more popular than ever! We recently held the second-largest FTO round in the world here in Utah, only being beaten out by nationals. 12 people competed out of 150 registrants, which is around 9% of all competitors. With a rate like that being higher than the average rate of big blind, I think that FTO has earned a place in the WCA! And even if it doesn't, I still plan on holding FTO locally since it's very popular in the Rockies. https://cubingcontests.com/competitions/UtahChampionship2023/results

In 2023, does FTO's rise in popularity make it more and more likely to become an official event?

 

[caleb_g]

This may be a little bit of a necro post but FTO seems to be more popular than ever! We recently held the second-largest FTO round in the world here in Utah, only being beaten out by nationals. 12 people competed out of 150 registrants, which is around 9% of all competitors. With a rate like that being higher than the average rate of big blind, I think that FTO has earned a place in the WCA! And even if it doesn't, I still plan on holding FTO locally since it's very popular in the Rockies. https://cubingcontests.com/competitions/UtahChampionship2023/results

In 2023, does FTO's rise in popularity make it more and more likely to become an official event?

absolutely cause it adds a new plutonic solid to the wca lol

 

[Tabe]

In 2023, does FTO's rise in popularity make it more and more likely to become an official event?

I don't think FTO is anywhere near popular enough, considering the horrendous state of the hardware, for it to get added. It'll need to either become a LOT more popular, get decent hardware*, or both.

* - no, 3D-printed extensions on another puzzle or heavily modified stock puzzles do not count.

 

[Sub1Hour]

I don't think FTO is anywhere near popular enough, considering the horrendous state of the hardware, for it to get added. It'll need to either become a LOT more popular, get decent hardware*, or both.

* - no, 3D-printed extensions on another puzzle or heavily modified stock puzzles do not count.

For what it's worth, there have been leaked photos of a Dayan (I think it was Dayan) mechanism that looks quite basic but is still a massive improvement from the current Lanlan mechanism. While FTO is currently not the most popular unofficial event, I think that it strikes a much better balance than something like mirror cube or team events where it adds something new while also having a decent existing competitor pool. Once we can get some actual hardware that doesn't need to be filed down for hours and hours I would like to think that FTO's popularity would skyrocket