Should the Face-turning Octahedron be WCA official?

Should octahedron be official?

  • Yes (say why)

    Votes: 20 37.7%

  • No (say why)

    Votes: 33 62.3%
  • Total voters
    53
tseitsei said:
tl:dr Don't fix it if it isn't broken. You'll just end up breaking it...
Click to expand...

That's just so wrong.

Perhaps the reason why 4BLD and 5BLD aren't held so much is that they're tough to schedule.

I don't get what you mean by "adding more and more events". All that's been added in the last five years has been skewb. We have fewer events now than we did in 2009.
 
Ranzha said:
That's just so wrong.

Perhaps the reason why 4BLD and 5BLD aren't held so much is that they're tough to schedule.

I don't get what you mean by "adding more and more events". All that's been added in the last five years has been skewb. We have fewer events now than we did in 2009.
Click to expand...

Well if we have problems scheduling the existing events to our comps then why would we want to add even more events to make scheduling even harder?

And by "adding more and more events" I mean that we shouldn't take it as a habit to add more events just because someone happens to like them. Skewb was only added a year ago and people are already planning for the next event to be added...

I'm just trying to say that having too many events isn't good because then events get held more seldom. And I don't think that is good. I think everyone should have possibilities to compete in their chosen event at reasonable intervals. Not something like once every 10 comps or so... You can disagree with that because that's just my opinion but that is the point I am trying to get across to you here :)
 
tseitsei said:
Globally yes. In Finland we had 4 comps last year. All had 4BLD and 2 had 5BLD :)


I think we are quite balanced right now. But we shouldn't keep adding more and more events. What we have now is good.


Yes it would be nice if 5BLD was held more often :D. I totally agree with that... This just further proves my point that we shouldn't be adding new events if we struggle to hold the ones we have now often enough.


:tu


There are many events that could be official in the sense that they would fit the WCA quite well and be quite easy to organize. I agree with that. BUT those should not be made official because (once again) IMO we shouldn't have too many official events.


And this also just further proves my point:
Cubing is growing and it is getting harder to organize comps because we have more competitors. Then why would we make that organizing even harder by adding new events as well as new competitors? :)

tl:dr Don't fix it if it isn't broken. You'll just end up breaking it...
Click to expand...

1. Not everyone lives in Finland, I'm glad its so great over there, but most comps don't have 4 or 5 BLD. Pick a random comp and chances are it wont have 5BLD. It's not that there isn't necessarily enough time, but there's not exactly interest in those events from a fair portion of cubers. Even in the cubing community, not many people can do 4 or 5 BLD. Only 137 people have ever even got an official single for 5...
2. This is an opinionated statement. Who says its good? You? I understand that not everybody wants octahedron either. But I think at this point, the arguments gone past octahedron and to the point that we really shouldn't be afraid to add new events just because they won't get held. Far more people have gotten a skewb time officially already. That just proves that adding new events is a good thing, and I'm fairly certain more comps hold skewb than 5BLD.
tldr; don't be afraid to add new events just because current ones aren't doing so hot.
 
Why shouldn't it be made official? I'm not saying that octahedron would be the most popular choice, but something lots of people seem to want like 3x3x5 etc. The WCA coped fine when the magics were around, at least i think, as I wasn't cubing at the time. We have one. Less event than we did 3 years ago.
 
cashis said:
1. Not everyone lives in Finland, I'm glad its so great over there, but most comps don't have 4 or 5 BLD. Pick a random comp and chances are it wont have 5BLD. It's not that there isn't necessarily enough time, but there's not exactly interest in those events from a fair portion of cubers. Even in the cubing community, not many people can do 4 or 5 BLD. Only 137 people have ever even got an official single for 5...
2. This is an opinionated statement. Who says its good? You? I understand that not everybody wants octahedron either. But I think at this point, the arguments gone past octahedron and to the point that we really shouldn't be afraid to add new events just because they won't get held. Far more people have gotten a skewb time officially already. That just proves that adding new events is a good thing, and I'm fairly certain more comps hold skewb than 5BLD.
tldr; don't be afraid to add new events just because current ones aren't doing so hot.
Click to expand...

Ofcourse it is opinionated. These are matters of opinion. And IMO what we have now is working quite well.

I also suggest that you (re-)read my post just above yours :)
 
tseitsei said:
Ofcourse it is opinionated. These are matters of opinion. And IMO what we have now is working quite well.

I also suggest that you (re-)read my post just above yours :)
Click to expand...

oh whoops, well yeah I didn't see that one but I guess it is all up to opinion.
 
Has everyone forgotten about what it took for skewb to get added as an event? Even before it was added, skewb had a sizable community of people actively practicing. There were multiple well-documented methods. It was held unofficially at many competitions.

Is there any puzzle that comes close that? If you can't name one, then don't even bother trying to argue that something should be added.
 
cashis said:
Far more people have gotten a skewb time officially already. That just proves that adding new events is a good thing
Click to expand...
Nah, it proves that Skewb is popular (which is good, because it'd be dumb to add an event that wasn't!). Of course, since it's such a simple puzzle to learn, and since lots of people want to record times in as many official events as they can, I'm sure lots of people have competed in Skewb even though they wouldn't have touched Skewb if it wasn't official.

I'd like to note that even without considering any of the long events (4/5bld, multi, 6/7, fmc) it is often still difficult to hold everything in a large local competition. In the US even local competitions can hold >100 people, and since many are one-day, you often won't get a chance to do the event you like without going to a bigger competition like Nationals. So adding another event means that even a lot of people who attend competitions will end up not having a chance to do it - and if it IS held, it may be instead of another event. So it'd better be something that's worth it :) Skewb was but I don't know of any unofficial event that is both interesting and popular.
 
obelisk477 said:
Well since we're clearly disregarding OP at this point:

Get rid of feet. Add team BLD
Click to expand...

How about 15 puzzle?


Or none altogether. We don't really need any new events with the stereotypical schedules we have now. I highly doubt TeamBLD, 15 puzzle, or FTOs would be added with the scheduling, regulations, and current major interests that we have.

If we do get a new event, I might just place it in HOOAH2015. (Tentative competition)
 
obelisk477 said:
Well since we're clearly disregarding OP at this point:

Get rid of feet. Add team BLD
Click to expand...

That's not how it works.
That's not how any of this works.

People often disregard what it really takes for an event to become official.
There need to be concise, stylistically identical, cogent regulations and regulation changes to accommodate the event amongst the other events; the event needs to be popular; the event needs to be added to TNoodle; the event needs to be able to be integrated in the WCA database.

At the moment, 3x3 Team BLD isn't as popular now as it used to be, though very recently people have been posting some other puzzles team BLD.
Addition in TNoodle is easy since all it requires are 3x3 scrambles.
What we need are consistent regulations (which are a pain to try making without pissing anyone off) and database integration capabilities (which seems to be the biggest challenge).

I don't get why some people are under the impression that by removing an event, we "have a spot open" on the official event list. We don't.
 
Ranzha said:
That's not how it works.
That's not how any of this works.

People often disregard what it really takes for an event to become official.
There need to be concise, stylistically identical, cogent regulations and regulation changes to accommodate the event amongst the other events; the event needs to be popular; the event needs to be added to TNoodle; the event needs to be able to be integrated in the WCA database.

At the moment, 3x3 Team BLD isn't as popular now as it used to be, though very recently people have been posting some other puzzles team BLD.
Addition in TNoodle is easy since all it requires are 3x3 scrambles.
What we need are consistent regulations (which are a pain to try making without pissing anyone off) and database integration capabilities (which seems to be the biggest challenge).

I don't get why some people are under the impression that by removing an event, we "have a spot open" on the official event list. We don't.
Click to expand...

This is a good summary.

To take just one part of example, Skewb support required someone to write a random-state scrambler for TNoodle. Chen Shuang stepped up to the plate, and this was a critical step. Skewb was not going to happen otherwise.

While we're there is no limit on the number of events, there are various reasons competitors/organizers/Delegates/the WRC/the Board would like them to stay manageable. In particular, big competitions feel pressure to hold all events, regardless of anyone's personal opinion whether they need to.

So, in practice, we need to balance opportunity costs: if we add an event, it should be worthwhile compared to other events we could add.
We have not tried to resolve an exact set of criteria, but we are keeping track of the issue: https://github.com/cubing/wca-documents/issues/183

Personally, I believe FTO is just barely unique/interesting enough, but I don't think there will enough interest unless there is an unexpected surge, and it is not unique enough compared to other interesting events we could add.
 
I just wanna add that I don't know who changed the topic title, but the original poster (cashis) says he has a Dayan Octahedron, which is vertex turning and not an FTO.

As for FTOs, the mechanism is kind of iffy... I remember when I was speedsolving it the triangular centers use to pop relatively regularly. I'm not sure if this is fixable. Oh yeah, and it's the same puzzle as the Rex Cube :) It's a fun puzzle but I don't want to see it in competition.
 
cashis said:
So, recently my friend gave me his octahedron, and I've kinda fallen in love.
I was thinking that it really isn't a shape mod (that I know of), and it's kinda a puzzle of its own, like skewb was before it was made official.
I know not many people speedsolve octa (or even have one), but I'm sure if made official, there would be way more interest. I personally think octahedron would add a really cool event to the WCA, that would bring more variety.
If you agree, comment why, and if you don't, also comment why. Just posting for feedback, and seeing if there's interest :)
edit: I'm talking about the 8 axis face turning ones, sorry
Click to expand...
can I see a picture of it
 
LukasCubes said:
can I see a picture of it
Click to expand...
Lanlan-Face-Turning-Octahedron-Magic-Cube-Puzzle-3x3-Professional-Challenge-8-Axis-Block-Puzzl...jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gsingh
  • Poll Poll
Should Face Turning Octahedron Be Added to the WCA?
2
Replies
23
Views
3,926
@UAPermOfficial_YT
@UAPermOfficial_YT
Mike Hughey
  • Poll Poll
Should Face-Turning Octahedron (FTO) be added to the Weekly Competition?
Replies
12
Views
2,956
One Wheel
One Wheel
B
C4Y DIY Which way should spring face.
Replies
8
Views
1,760
bobwaci
B
C
Should methods actually be disciplines?
Replies
6
Views
435
Cassiopaia
C
iguana
What skewb should I buy?
Replies
11
Views
605
Puzzle Maniac
Puzzle Maniac
Back
Top