SALOW Notation for Curvy Copter.

[Hazel]

So RedKB's center-swap alg would be like this?: UR/ FL/ UF UR\ FL\

 

[OreKehStrah]

This is great development. I'll be updating the word files tomorrow with all of the community changes.

Nice! Just to be clear, is every so far in agreement that the ideal scramble would be like squan where initially the puzzle is just put in a random state, then jumbling moves are applied?

 

[Hazel]

Also just for even more clarity: At 4:40 in RedKB's jumbling tutorial the algorithm he does would be this, correct?: FD FR/ FU FR/
It's a bit hard to tell from video :/

 

[whatshisbucket]

Also just for even more clarity: At 4:40 in RedKB's jumbling tutorial the algorithm he does would be this, correct?: FD FR/ FU FR/
It's a bit hard to tell from video :/

It should be FD FR// FU FR/ since the FR edge turns a full 180 degrees during the algorithm.

 

[Kit Clement]

Nice! Just to be clear, is every so far in agreement that the ideal scramble would be like squan where initially the puzzle is just put in a random state, then jumbling moves are applied?

The state that is randomly generated is the eventual state in the end, not a state in a subgroup.

Any notation ideas that have been discussed here so far make me strongly not want this as an official WCA event ever.

 

[Sion]

I would like to let everyone know the front page has been updated based on user suggestions. I'm confident a program developer can make a random state scrambler using SALOW notation for Curvy Copter.

 

[whatshisbucket]

The state that is randomly generated is the eventual state in the end, not a state in a subgroup.

Any notation ideas that have been discussed here so far make me strongly not want this as an official WCA event ever.

It's definitely easier to write a scrambler that first randomly permutes the pieces before randomly jumbling them, which of course has the same effect as long as the jumbles are chosen with the correct probabilities.

Making this a WCA event is definitely worth it for the 4/654117 chance each scramble that the cube starts in the meson shape /s

 

[Kit Clement]

It's definitely easier to write a scrambler that first randomly permutes the pieces before randomly jumbling them, which of course has the same effect as long as the jumbles are chosen with the correct probabilities.

I don't disagree, but I'm pretty sure that methodology is not how the current Sq1 scrambler works.

 

[Sion]

I don't disagree, but I'm pretty sure that methodology is not how the current Sq1 scrambler works.

Whatever the case, I'm really excited as we now have a notation that is viable to put in a Random State Scrambler, Algorithms, and Reconstructions.

 

[xyzzy]

Any notation ideas that have been discussed here so far make me strongly not want this as an official WCA event ever.

Oh same.

The front/back slash notation looks supremely confusing. If / and \ are supposed to be "atomic" clockwise and anticlockwise turns (70 degrees or 40 degrees, depending), and if // and \\ are inverses of \ and / respectively, how the heck would // and / differ? You're just arbitrarily deciding that one of them should refer to 180° + an atomic turn. Also, why / for clockwise and \ for anticlockwise?

Just use notation like UF1, UF2, UF3, UF2', UF1' (the "1"s may be omitted) to denote however many atomic turns of that one edge, imo.

I don't disagree, but I'm pretty sure that methodology is not how the current Sq1 scrambler works.

Sure, but maybe for the Curvy Copter it'd be easier to use this approach rather than directly coding a solver that can handle arbitrary jumbled shapes.

 

[Sion]

Oh same.

The front/back slash notation looks supremely confusing. If / and \ are supposed to be "atomic" clockwise and anticlockwise turns (70 degrees or 40 degrees, depending), and if // and \\ are inverses of \ and / respectively, how the heck would // and / differ? You're just arbitrarily deciding that one of them should refer to 180° + an atomic turn. Also, why / for clockwise and \ for anticlockwise?

Just use notation like UF1, UF2, UF3, UF2', UF1' (the "1"s may be omitted) to denote however many atomic turns of that one edge, imo.

You swapped "/" and "\", but generally speaking, it's if it were on a clock, the direction that would be fastest for the top of the slash to reach 12 o'clock.
As for your system, in SALOW, "UF2" is the equivalent of "U4" on 3x3.

 

[OreKehStrah]

The state that is randomly generated is the eventual state in the end, not a state in a subgroup.

Any notation ideas that have been discussed here so far make me strongly not want this as an official WCA event ever.

I don’t blame you. It is a bit of a mess right now, but right now things are still developing in the growing pains stage. This is the first time curvy copper has really been discussed seriously in a long time. Hopefully things can be more polished over time.

 

[superphluous]

As for your system, in SALOW, "UF2" is the equivalent of "U4" on 3x3.

I think you misunderstood xyzzy - he's proposing a different way to write the notation. UF2 in SALOW notation would be UF// (or is it UF\\? further proving his point that the slashes are extremely confusing). I think using numbers is much clearer and much easier to read than slashes.

 

[xyzzy]

I think you misunderstood xyzzy - he's proposing a different way to write the notation. UF2 in SALOW notation would be UF// (or is it UF\\? further proving his point that the slashes are extremely confusing). I think using numbers is much clearer and much easier to read than slashes.

Haha, yeah. (I didn't read carefully enough, so mixing up / and \ is totally my fault. But I still stand by my claim that it's confusing.)

 

[OreKehStrah]

Haha, yeah. (I didn't read carefully enough, so mixing up / and \ is totally my fault. But I still stand by my claim that it's confusing.)

I agree it is confusing now. basically the way I look at it, the slash mirrors the position of the edge. FR\ is one partial turn of the FR edge and the edge is tilted like the slash. We may need to look into this system more to improve it

 

[Cubinwitdapizza]

Curvy copter and helicopter cubes are not the same thing correct?

EDIT: Nevermind googled it lol.

 

[whatshisbucket]

I agree it is confusing now. basically the way I look at it, the slash mirrors the position of the edge. FR\ is one partial turn of the FR edge and the edge is tilted like the slash. We may need to look into this system more to improve it

Oops I guess I had the directions mixed up too, not to mention this idea doesn’t quite make sense when the cube is heavily jumbled. I’d much prefer numbers or +/- to this notation.

 

[Sion]

Oops I guess I had the directions mixed up too, not to mention this idea doesn’t quite make sense when the cube is heavily jumbled. I’d much prefer numbers or +/- to this notation.

I'll be going to get my curvy copter today, so that might help for sure.

I do think the slashes look the cleanest on paper.

Numbers can get confusing if you aren't used to 3x3, and that everything in non jumbling would be considered RF3, which could be rediculous when it could simply be noted as "RF".

As for the +/- system, I'm afraid that it could resemble mega scrambling notation too much, which could more than easily confuse the scramblers since ++ in megaminx is not the same as ++ or \\ in Curvy Copter.

 

[Sion]

Good news: I just got a curvy copter; I am realizing what might be the best system is this:

RF+, RF+', RF, RF-', RF. RF-' is the inverse of RF+, and RF+' is the inverse of RF-.

 

[whatshisbucket]

Good news: I just got a curvy copter; I am realizing what might be the best system is this:

RF+, RF+', RF, RF-', RF. RF-' is the inverse of RF+, and RF+' is the inverse of RF-.

That still doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't that make RF+ turning the puzzle the smallest amount clockwise and RF- turning the puzzle the second smallest amount counterclockwise (since the smallest amount counterclockwise would necessarily be RF-', the inverse of RF+)?