One-Answer WCA Competition and Regulations Question Thread

[Kit Clement]

I understand that's the rule, and personally 3 seems like about the number I would want (I've never competed in FMC officially, just the forum comps), but is there a deeper logic than "seems like a good number" to limiting it to 3?

Honestly, I have no clue why it's 3. There definitely needs to be a limit, as if I had an infinite supply of 3x3s, I would save so much time searching for skeletons by not having to re-solve my cubes, and buying your way to an advantage shouldn't be possible. But yeah, it's always been three since I've been a cuber, so "seems like a good number" is about all I've got. But maybe someone who has been around longer than I would have a better reasoning for 3. I guess you could argue you have a cube for searching the normal scramble, a cube for searching the inverse, and a cube for insertions?

 

[One Wheel]

Honestly, I have no clue why it's 3. There definitely needs to be a limit, as if I had an infinite supply of 3x3s, I would save so much time searching for skeletons by not having to re-solve my cubes, and buying your way to an advantage shouldn't be possible. But yeah, it's always been three since I've been a cuber, so "seems like a good number" is about all I've got. But maybe someone who has been around longer than I would have a better reasoning for 3. I guess you could argue you have a cube for searching the normal scramble, a cube for searching the inverse, and a cube for insertions?

"Seems like a good number" is good enough for me, as is normal, inverse, and insertions. I guess I'm just curious what people might do differently if the limit were, say, 5 cubes. I might start a poll.

 

[GenTheSnail]

I cotton modded my 10 Qiyi Warrior Ws. They have a legally printed logo, but is completely indistinguishable from the rest of the plastic when one is blindfolded as described in Article 3.

• 3l2) The logo may be embossed, engraved, or consist of an overlay sticker. Exception: The logo must not be distinguishable by feel for blindfolded events (i.e. no embossings, engravings, or overlay stickers).

However, bits of cotton stick out of some of the cubies and are slightly distinguishable by feel. Are my cubes no longer WCA legal?

 

[cubeninjaIV]

I cotton modded my 10 Qiyi Warrior Ws. They have a legally prined logo, but is completely indistinguishable from the rest of the plastic when one is blindfolded as described in Article 3.

• 3l2) The logo may be embossed, engraved, or consist of an overlay sticker. Exception: The logo must not be distinguishable by feel for blindfolded events (i.e. no embossings, engravings, or overlay stickers).

However, bits of cotton stick out of some of the cubies and are slightly distinguishable by feel. Are my cubes no longer WCA legal?

It's probably illegal, but I'd also like to add that a printed qiyi logo IS distinguishable by feel and is also not comp legal for bld events.

 

[GenTheSnail]

Well, I guess I'd better start rubbing off those logos, though that would make them more distinguishable due to their smoothness... but legal?

I'm glad I'm not doing official 6+ MBLD cube attempts yet.

 

[cubeninjaIV]

Well, I guess I'd better start rubbing off those logos, though that would make them more distinguishable due to their smoothness... but legal?

I'm glad I'm not doing official 6+ MBLD cube attempts yet.

Don't forget
3j) Puzzles must be clean, and must not have any markings, elevated pieces, damage, or other differences that significantly distinguish any piece from a similar piece. Exception: a logo (see Regulation 3l).

I tried to wipe the logo off with acetone, that partially melted the plastic. Your best bet is probably to buy a white cube and use the center caps from that in place of the white one with the logo.

 

[UnlimitedBacon]

Is there a way to check the waiting line for a competition? Because I was told there are around 23 people in the queue, but I want to check if any have dropped out, etc.

 

[SolveThatCube]

Sorry if this has already been asked but: can I use a stickerless Valk 3 for blindfolded solving? The logo is printed on and I can hardly distinguish it from the rest of the centers but still...?

 

[DGCubes]

Sorry if this has already been asked but: can I use a stickerless Valk 3 for blindfolded solving? The logo is printed on and I can hardly distinguish it from the rest of the centers but still...?

Yeah, Jeff Park used one in his NAR single and average.

 

[cubeninjaIV]

Yeah, Jeff Park used one in his NAR single and average.

I answered this question literally 5 posts up. Qiyi logos are distinguishable by touch, and therefor not bld legal. Jeff shouldn't have been allowed to use that in his blind solves.

 

[Malkom]

I answered this question literally 5 posts up. Qiyi logos are distinguishable by touch, and therefor not bld legal. Jeff shouldn't have been allowed to use that in his blind solves.

I know multiple people who have used them in both BLD and MBLD, seems like they are legal.

 

[TDM]

I know multiple people who have used them in both BLD and MBLD, seems like they are legal.

Sometimes, illegal cubes get used because people don't notice. It doesn't make them legal. The guy you quoted is a delegate.

 

[Malkom]

Sometimes, illegal cubes get used because people don't notice. It doesn't make them legal. The guy you quoted is a delegate.

The delegates in my region obviously think it's okay since they've been used for multiple BLD NRs, seems like the regs are a little fuzzy.

 

[Ronxu]

The delegates in my region obviously think it's okay since they've been used for multiple BLD NRs, seems like the regs are a little fuzzy.

So fuzzy.

3j) Puzzles must be clean, and must not have any markings, elevated pieces, damage, or other differences that significantly distinguish any piece from a similar piece. Exception: a logo (see Regulation 3l).

3l) A puzzle may have a logo on a colored part. If it does, it must have at most one colored part with a logo.

• 3l2) The logo may be embossed, engraved, or consist of an overlay sticker. Exception: The logo must not be distinguishable by feel for blindfolded events (i.e. no embossings, engravings, or overlay stickers).

 

[GenTheSnail]

The delegates in my region obviously think it's okay since they've been used for multiple BLD NRs, seems like the regs are a little fuzzy.

I think it's more that they didn't realize that the logo is distinguishable by feel.

@cubeninjaIV do you know how the WCA determined that the logo was distinguishable by feel? I've passed some of my cubes to people and asked them to try and find the white side, without looking, and only by feeling for the logo. None of them have been able to.
Can you personally feel a difference from the center with logos and centers without logos?

 

[mark49152]

I think the problem is that it is left to discretion, meaning that what may be judged as indistinguishable by one delegate may be not accepted by another. It would be simpler and more consistent to just ban these logo types for BLD. The regs do imply that, by stating in parentheses "no overlay stickers" etc., but IMHO it creates ambiguity to put that in parentheses because it could be interpreted by some to be a list of examples that might apply but only if the sticker is distinguishable by feel. The regulation 3l2 would be clearer if it stated "The logo may be embossed, engraved, or consist of an overlay sticker. Exception: These are not permitted for blindfolded events."

 

[cubeninjaIV]

I think it's more that they didn't realize that the logo is distinguishable by feel.

@cubeninjaIV do you know how the WCA determined that the logo was distinguishable by feel? I've passed some of my cubes to people and asked them to try and find the white side, without looking, and only by feeling for the logo. None of them have been able to.
Can you personally feel a difference in from the centers with logos and centers without logos?

The application of this reg is up to individual delegates. Since the texture of these logos is indeed very subtle, some may not realize that you can feel it.
The fact is that you can feel it, and I can identify the white side 100% of the time.

The fact that your delegate may have over looked this case in the past isn't an excuse to use the puzzle anyway. It's better to lead by example and bring it up to them so they are aware of it.

 

[SolveThatCube]

If I were to take a couple of center caps of my Valk, including the white center, and feel them without looking, I would be able to tell which one was white every time as well but not straight away, by itself it feels normal, only in comparison with the other pieces can you tell its slightly different.

So it is illegal and I kinda knew that before I posted but I guess I just wanted to know if anyone else has used them in competition and yeah... so I guess I'll just ask the delegates at my next comp what they think.

But, the advantage it gives is so small. You hold the cube in one orientation throughout the entire solve so the only time I can see that someone might feel the centers to check what side is what is if they accidentally dropped the cube during a solve and checked to see where the white side is but even then they can only be sure of the orientation of the white and it's opposite side but none of the rest so they still wouldn't be sure if they have the correct orientation to continue the solve.
What do you guys think about that?

 

[xyzzy]

even then they can only be sure of the orientation of the white and it's opposite side but none of the rest so they still wouldn't be sure if they have the correct orientation to continue the solve.

The probability of getting the correct orientation without having the white side as a reference is 1/24, whereas the probability of getting the correct orientation with the white side as a reference is 1/4. It's a sixfold difference, and 1/4 is high enough that you might want to gamble on getting it right.

 

[mark49152]

the only time I can see that someone might feel the centers to check what side is what is if they accidentally dropped the cube during a solve and checked to see where the white side is but even then they can only be sure of the orientation of the white and it's opposite side but none of the rest so they still wouldn't be sure if they have the correct orientation to continue the solve.
What do you guys think about that?

Or it could be used to check whether you are on an odd or even target during M2, if you lose track. Or whether you forgot to fix parity. Etc.