How should I improve my times now?

[Cooper97]

Hello,

I started speedcubing 3 months ago. First, I used the LBL method until my average was 1:45, and then I started to practice CFOP F2L. My average is now about 75 seconds per solve, but now I'm asking myself if I should start practicing 4LLL (2-look-OLL and 2-lool PLL) now, or if I should practice my cross and my F2L more at the moment. In average, I need 8 to 12 seconds for the cross, about 40 seconds for the CFOP-F2L and 15 to 30 seconds for the Top-Layer (at the moment, I use the algorithms from the LBL method for the Top-Layer).

I'm asking myself now if I should start now to learn the 4LLL algorithms and then practice, practice, practice,.... or, if I should wait with the learning of the 4LLL algorithms until I'm faster with my cross and my F2L.

Also, how long does it take in average to do the last layer using 4LLL in less than 10 to 15 seconds?

Best regards,
Cooper97

 

[shadowslice e]

Right now, I would advise you to look at other "advanced methods" such as roux or ZZ. However, learning 4LLL will help somewhat with these methods.

 

[Cooper97]

Right now, I would advise you to look at other "advanced methods" such as roux or ZZ.

I've already took a look at Roux and ZZ, but I don't think that one of this is the right method for me. But I will take a look at Petrus in the next few days to compare it, but because I'm satisfied with CFOP/Fridrich, I think I will use CFOP except if I find Petrus better than CFOP.

 

[mitja]

If you plan to stay at CFOP , I would say you are thinking correctly. Now 3 look OLL( using sune) and after that 2 look using other 6 Algs. For pll: 3 look method. First with A perm and U perm. After that, 2 look with 6 algs: A , T, Y for corners and H, Z, U for edges.
Of course you should work on cross and F2L at the same time.
Bye

 

[CubingBanana]

I recommed learning 3LLL (2look OLL and full PLL). But first do 2look pll
Also work on the cross and f2l.
With this in mind, your times will plummet. From 75 to 45-60 seconds. I recommend a Valk 3, this improved my times by 5 seconds.
When you feel comfortable, learn full PLL. It's quite easy with few algs. Make sure while solving, if you dont know all of them, do a hybrid.

Hope this helped

 

[Cooper97]

Thanks a lot for the help!

I currently learn 4LLL and then 3LLL, my times already dropped from an average of ~75 seconds to an average of ~62 seconds. I hope that I can improve my F2L too in the next weeks from ~40 seconds to ~25 or ~20 seconds.

(How long did you need to make the CFOP-F2L in less than 20 seconds?)

Best regards,
Cooper97

 

[CubingBanana]

Thanks a lot for the help!

I currently learn 4LLL and then 3LLL, my times already dropped from an average of ~75 seconds to an average of ~62 seconds. I hope that I can improve my F2L too in the next weeks from ~40 seconds to ~25 or ~20 seconds.

(How long did you need to make the CFOP-F2L in less than 20 seconds?)

Best regards,
Cooper97

I currently don't have sub 20 cross f2l. With f2l, stay intuitive, but learn a few algs. I strongly recommend the last layer algs for at least 2 look, times plummeted to 60 seconds and got a Valk and plummeted to 50 seconds. With practice, get full PLL, however for now do a hybrid on the algs in the muscle. Hope this helped

 

[pglewis]

I think the moment you're comfortable with all the algs you know is the time to learn more. Faster F2L is probably going to be where you pick up the most time still but it takes a while before recognition catches up to muscle memory on algs. The sooner you add them to your arsenal the sooner you'll recognize them quickly in a speedsolve.

 

[Whitebeard250]

I think you can start learning the 4LLL algorithms now, there aren't many and it doesn't take long to learn at all. Other than that it's just practice and practice, I wouldn't bothe with 3LLL until you're 0 seconds or so. For now imo you should focus on cross/F2L. It took me ~2.5 months to get my LL under 15 seconds with 4LLL.

 

[Cooper97]

I think you can start learning the 4LLL algorithms now, there aren't many and it doesn't take long to learn at all.

I'm learning them currently, but because I currently only know ~5 of them in my muscle memory, I still have to use the LBL-Last-Layer method in a speedsolve. But, my times dropped now from the average of 75 seconds (last week) down to an average of about 59 seconds.

For now imo you should focus on cross/F2L.

Yes I'm currently focusing on them.

It took me ~2.5 months to get my LL under 15 seconds with 4LLL.

I hope that I'll get faster with 4LLL. With the Last-Layer method of the LBL method, I currently need about 10 to 15 seconds in average. Having times higher than this with 4LLL would slow my times down in the first weeks.

 

[DGCubes]

I hope that I'll get faster with 4LLL. With the Last-Layer method of the LBL method, I currently need about 10 to 15 seconds in average. Having times higher than this with 4LLL would slow my times down in the first weeks.

Whenever you learn a new method or step, your times will slow down for a while automatically. Never be discouraged by this though. Especially in this case, 4LLL is definitely better than the LBL last layer method in the long run, so just remember that soon your times will decrease.

Also, not gonna lie, it feels pretty funny to be the first person with a profile picture to post in this thread.

 

[PurpleBanana]

For pll: 3 look method. First with A perm and U perm. After that, 2 look with 6 algs: A , T, Y for corners and H, Z, U for edges.

Those are not the right 6 algs. A and T are redundant, and there are two U perms needed.

 

[mitja]

Sorry I wrote too fast. 2 A perms, Y, 2 U perms, Z and H. That would be 7 algs for 2 look PLL.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Sorry I wrote too fast. 2 A perms, Y, 2 U perms, Z and H. That would be 7 algs for 2 look PLL.

You don't need two A perms.

 

[mitja]

You don't need two A perms.

No, you don't, but it is much easier to learn both A perms then to always setup for same A. At least thats my experience whith teaching children.

 

[mitja]

You don't need two A perms.

And one more thing, you need two A or two U perms. Depends on the choice of edges or corners first.

 

[PurpleBanana]

And one more thing, you need two A or two U perms. Depends on the choice of edges or corners first.

I've never heard of anyone doing edges first. That seems to add unnecessary complications.

 

[mitja]

I've never heard of anyone doing edges first. That seems to add unnecessary complications.

Agreed, I was just counting the algs. When i work with youngs, they learn A and U perms ( so they can solve OLL and PLL. Then T, Y so they cover the moves used in many other perms. Then they go step by step with H, Z, J ....

 

[Cooper97]

I currently focus on my Cross and F2L - I need ~25 seconds for both (5s cross, 20s F2L), I hope that I can improve this times soon. (I do 30 to 150 solves per day at the moment). Also I'm not sure if 4LLL would make me faster than the LBL-method for the last layer (top-layer) of the cube.

 

[PurpleBanana]

I currently focus on my Cross and F2L - I need ~25 seconds for both (5s cross, 20s F2L), I hope that I can improve this times soon. (I do 30 to 150 solves per day at the moment). Also I'm not sure if 4LLL would make me faster than the LBL-method for the last layer (top-layer) of the cube.

Learn 4LLL.