[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by koreancuber, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. koreancuber

    koreancuber Member

    1,089
    2
    Jan 31, 2010
    Seoul, Korea, South Korea
    YouTube:
    kimcuber
    First, I'd like to credit Cyrus C. (for the Petrus Home thread idea) and Innocence (lol...). Just a thread for those few ZZ/ZB members out there.
    Here's a list of cubers that use ZZ/ZB method as their main method that I KNOW of:

    Sir E Brum
    4Chan
    koreancuber
    blah (not sure)
    Cride5
    ThatGuy
    Mustard
    Kirjava (for lulz, lol)
    Innocence
    ostracod
    vcuber13
    yurivish
    a small kitten
    James
    iasimp1997
    nitay6669
    [abc]toshiro
    eastamazonantidote
    Stachuk1992
    jordan12
    Anonymous
    Escher
    Matthew

    Please help me add more! (just post on this thread if you know any cuber that uses the ZZ/ZB method as their main)

    Here's some great info from Cride5! Thanks!

    I guess its probably a good idea to include links to other past ZZ threads:

    ZBLL algorithms from eastamazonantidote!




    ZZF2L tips from Conrad (Cride5)!
    (more info here and here)

    Tips for ZZF2L Lookahead:

    * Partially hidden edges - learn to identify them through elimination
    * Partially hidden corners - ensure you can 'see' 6/8 corners at all times. See: Coracle
    * EOLine-F2L transition - basically concentrate on F2L during EOLine - don't 'check' your line edges
    * Flexibility - On 1x2x2 blocks be willing to use either a D or and E-slice edge
    * No looking at B/D - rotations are bad, use R/L moves to find pieces if you need to

    ZZF2L execution tips from Matt S!


    something Chris Tran brought up

    ELLC, only 27 algs!

    ZZF2L 'Open Slotting' Algorithms by Conrad! (Cride5)

    ... and of course there's always the wiki pages:
    [wiki]ZZ[/wiki]
    [wiki]ZB[/wiki]
    [wiki]ZBLL[/wiki]
    [wiki]COLL[/wiki]
    [wiki]EPLL[/wiki]

    AND SO MANY MORE!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
  2. miniGOINGS

    miniGOINGS Member

    3,052
    1
    Feb 27, 2009
    Musturd.

    Also...when did I come up with this idea?
     
  3. koreancuber

    koreancuber Member

    1,089
    2
    Jan 31, 2010
    Seoul, Korea, South Korea
    YouTube:
    kimcuber
    Good point. Innocence, sorry.
     
  4. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

    6,123
    21
    Mar 26, 2006
    WCA:
    2006BARL01
    YouTube:
    snkenjoi
    I use ZZ for the lulz.
     
  5. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
    14
    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
    2009RIDE01
    Great idea for a thread :D

    Optimal average is ~6.127 moves.

    I find achieving a near-optimal EOLine isn't too hard. Optimal EO is easy, and if you're paying attention to your line edges then the line part is rarely more than 3 moves.


    EDIT: I guess its probably a good idea to include links to other past ZZ threads:

    ... and of course there's always the wiki pages:
    http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/ZZ
    http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/ZB
    http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/ZBLL
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  6. koreancuber

    koreancuber Member

    1,089
    2
    Jan 31, 2010
    Seoul, Korea, South Korea
    YouTube:
    kimcuber
    I get the EO line, and I can get it during the 15 sec inspection time, but I can't seem to get the line. Any good times on practicing it?
     
  7. miniGOINGS

    miniGOINGS Member

    3,052
    1
    Feb 27, 2009
    Track/trace the pieces. It comes with practice, and time.
     
  8. Cyrus C.

    Cyrus C. Member

    2,159
    0
    Oct 17, 2009
    IOWA
    WCA:
    2010COLA01
    YouTube:
    CyroKarat
    Is there anyone learning ZB who uses Petrus?
     
  9. 4Chan

    4Chan Premium Member

    2,953
    509
    Jun 21, 2008
    Lumbridge
    YouTube:
    boxxybabee
    I like to think that people who go to learn ZB will give up around the 300 algorithm mark.

    I like to think to myself that it's a fad.

    Buuuuut, it would be nice to be proven wrong. :)

    EDIT: I'll offer help/advice/algorithms to anyone who posts in this thread though. :D
    I'm not too good with the ZZ part, but the LL part, I have a bit of experience.
     
  10. Innocence

    Innocence Member

    567
    1
    Aug 22, 2009
    Australia, mate.
    Hey, you can put me down on the list I think. Lol, I am trying to switch, believe it or not, just look at my horrible Fridrich times in the Sub-20 race.
     
  11. vcuber13

    vcuber13 Member

    2,476
    2
    Oct 14, 2009
    Near Toronto
    WCA:
    2009METH01
    YouTube:
    simpsons36109
    I thought it was only 476? (Atleast for LL)
     
  12. 4Chan

    4Chan Premium Member

    2,953
    509
    Jun 21, 2008
    Lumbridge
    YouTube:
    boxxybabee
    I thought it was 490 something, lol.
    I don't even know the exact number myself!
    HahahaHaHahaHahahA xD
     
  13. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

    6,123
    21
    Mar 26, 2006
    WCA:
    2006BARL01
    YouTube:
    snkenjoi
    After enough time with ZZ, do you guys find you can always detect bad edges in <10sec?
     
  14. 4Chan

    4Chan Premium Member

    2,953
    509
    Jun 21, 2008
    Lumbridge
    YouTube:
    boxxybabee
  15. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
    14
    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
    2009RIDE01
    I think that pretty much sums it up. Remember though, EOLine is hard. It will take time to master. Initially, I would just concentrate on EO + Line, being sure to concentrate on achieving optimal EO, and knowing alternative ways to solve the same case.

    For full EOLine I don't necessarily concentrate on optimallity, but instead there are two other important factors:
    (1) Lookahead ... I find EOLine to F2L transition is pretty hard, because there's an instinct to check to make sure the line is correct. Learn to just ignore the line pieces and trust they will be solved. I also find a great way to improve lookahead into F2L is to plan EOLine so that the final line placement ends in a D turn. Try to avoid U's and F2/B2 in the final moves as far as possible.
    (2) Ease of tracking ... Quite a lot of the time you can make tracking the line edges a lot easier by choosing an EOLine which minimises movement of the line edges. If you can keep one edge stationary during EO, for example, its a lot easier to track where the edges will end up.
     
  16. vcuber13

    vcuber13 Member

    2,476
    2
    Oct 14, 2009
    Near Toronto
    WCA:
    2009METH01
    YouTube:
    simpsons36109
    So its 493.
     
  17. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
    14
    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
    2009RIDE01
    Easily yeah! It takes more like about 5-sec to find the bad edges. Its planning the line which takes time for me, it involves thinking about other possible ways to solve EO to get a good Line.

    In the UK open last year I was just doing EO+Line and I think I only heard the 12-sec call once.
     
  18. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

    6,123
    21
    Mar 26, 2006
    WCA:
    2006BARL01
    YouTube:
    snkenjoi
    I never realised that you were from the UK.

    I obviously havn't had enough practise. Once I can detect bad edges I can easily track the EOline and solve it after fixing edges, but I can't yet tell if an edge is bad just by looking at it yet (If you get what I mean). I still can't see the entire Roux block everytime I inspect either, so maybe my inspection just sucks.

    I guess being nonCN helps somewhat for ZZ. At least at first.
     
  19. miniGOINGS

    miniGOINGS Member

    3,052
    1
    Feb 27, 2009
    ...I've never known of anyone not being colour neutral for ZZ.
     
  20. 4Chan

    4Chan Premium Member

    2,953
    509
    Jun 21, 2008
    Lumbridge
    YouTube:
    boxxybabee
    Rowan can change faces, and use different colours to "solve" bad edges.
     

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