ZZ-CT Thread

[4Chan]

Ahh, the bottom one is an H case.

However, you might want U2 R U R2 U2 R U R' U R.
Which is also written as U2 + R U R' (Insert) + R' U2 R U R' U R ( Back Anti-sune)

 

[GenTheSnail]

Uh, also in the section where the edge is in the slot the case:

+ +
0 -

seems to be missing.
Where "+" is a clockwise twist, "-" is a counter clockwise twist and "0" is no twist. Sort of like a Pi case and the ULF corner is oriented.
Is this actually a discrepancy or am I just not seeing it?

Also @4Chan ,

it includes a sub-9 single.

My best average of 12 is high 12, and my best average of 500 is like, 14 something.

I've been meaning to ask, what is you PB single with ZZ-CT? Did it have any skips of any kind?

 

[4Chan]

Ohh, for that case, I do an ADF + mirror

AUF: U'
ADF: D
TSLE: R2 U' R U' R' U2 R U' R
ADF: D'

Or: D R2 U' R U' R' U2 R U' R D'



As for PB single LOL, I don't actually know. Luckily, I've tracked my past 11.5k solves with ZZ-CT and Excel can tell me.

So far, I've had 4 recorded sub-9 solves, which were 8.265, 8.883, 8.942, and 8.972.
I think the 8.883 was a TSLE skip, and the other ones were full step.

My "true" LL-skips tend to be over 10 for some stupid reason.

EDIT: Looking at the excel data, I've had only 21 sub-10 solves, not counting the sub-9s.
Roughly half of those are from the past week alone. I think that means I'm improving. O__O

 

[AlphaSheep]

There are only 95 algs on @gyroninja's site. Plus OCLL makes 102 out of the 104 cases, which means there are two missing. Comparing to my own really messy list of algs, I think I've found the two missing cases:

Edge in slot and DFR twisted CW:

R U R' U2 R U R'

and

Edge in slot and DFR twisted CCW

R U2 R' U R U' R' U R U R'

 

[4Chan]

Whoa, that looks like you put a ton of work into it, @AlphaSheep !
It looks pretty nice honestly!


Everyone's got fancy websites and spreadsheets, but all my algs are scribbled on paper, a bad habit from 2009 ):

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Speaking of Algs, what is the best alg list for this method so far? CurrentAly I'm using gyroninja's, but I don't want to go too far in and figure out later that they suck.

 

[4Chan]

The thing with all methods is that they get optimized as they go along.

That's why I didn't share the algs immediately, even though I put the concept out there.
If multiple people make lists, then the best algs survive and it's like a darwinism thing, it promotes progress.

That list is honestly good enough to get sub-10 average.
There are only a few cases that I know that aren't on that list, but I'm pretty sure I can count those with my hands.

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

The thing with all methods is that they get optimized as they go along.

That's why I didn't share the algs immediately, even though I put the concept out there.
If multiple people make lists, then the best algs survive and it's like a darwinism thing, it promotes progress.

That list is honestly good enough to get sub-10 average.
There are only a few cases that I know that aren't on that list, but I'm pretty sure I can count those with my hands.

Alright. The reason I ask is because I'm having a hard time understanding the TTLL setup (I'm doing that first for specific reasons). If I understand correctly, the F2L corner is at UUL (obviously) but the TSLE edge is at FR?

 

[4Chan]

Oh, you completely ignore the F2L corner, and the edge is in UF.

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Oh, you completely ignore the F2L corner, and the edge is in UF.

For TTLL? Wow, I'm way off.

 

[4Chan]

OOPS, I thought you meant TSLE, haha.

Yes, you're right in your earlier post.

 

[Shiv3r]

k

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Alright, one more question (I hope):
How did you learn the Algs (or Algs in general)?
Did you do as many as you could at once or have music or what? I can't seem to get a good system going?

 

[4Chan]

To be completely honest, I learned this method fairly quickly because I used a ton of ZBLL tricks for memorization and recognition.

Like, before I learned all 72 blocks, I used ZBLL recog for the cases, and I have them arranged by edge cycle, just like my ZBLLs.

For TSLE, I just learned all the one corner cases, then two corner, then three, then four.
For TTLL, I learned 2gen first, then I brute forced the rest all at once.

I think that, for anyone learning a new set of algorithms, they should use critical thinking and creativity to figure out what's best for them.

I don't think my strategy would work for everyone, so I think the best option for you would be to figure out what's best for you, as long as you stick to it.

 

[Shiv3r]

Alright, one more question (I hope):
How did you learn the Algs (or Algs in general)?
Did you do as many as you could at once or have music or what? I can't seem to get a good system going?

what I did for learning full PLL in two days was I carried my alg sheet printed out everywhere along with a cube, and whenever I had spare time(no matter where) I would plop down and try out learning the alg I was working on. I used music a lot too.
for CMLL in under a month, I learned the sune/antisune by learning about 4 algs then using mirrors and inverses to learn the whole cases.
I would write down the recognition for each set one set at a time, with my own recog systems I had come up with. when I was done learning one set and had it pretty much down, I would learn the next set.
of course, I learned the last 3 sets for CMLL in a few days, because of how easy the H set was. and it was a lot more casual than my full PLL-learning. but thats how I learn algorithms. not by individual algs, but sets. I also learned the PLLs in pairs whenever there was a mirror.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Couldn't find this case: U R' L U' R2 U F2 R F2 U2 R' U2 L' B2 R2 B2 R2

Apologies if you already discussed this.

 

[4Chan]

Couldn't find this case: U R' L U' R2 U F2 R F2 U2 R' U2 L' B2 R2 B2 R2

Apologies if you already discussed this.

You might want U2 R U R2 U2 R U R' U R.
Which is also written as U2 + R U R' (Insert) + R' U2 R U R' U R ( Back Anti-sune)

Hope that helps!

 

[Shiv3r]

ZZ-CT seems like It may be ultimate for OH.
I see the future where the fastest singles in OH are ZZ-CT. maaaybe the fastest averages, but ZZ_CT seems like due to all the skips the averages would be all over the place. thats just my opinion.
and wir3sandfir3, there is actually a secret ZZ-CT race going on.

 

[Shiv3r]

My comps are out of the way, and I won't have another for a couple of months. I've started learning TSLE. I've been trying to start organising the cases and figuring out a structured order in which to learn them. I like to learn cases in groups by concepts (e.g. if the case has x characteristic, then insert to setup sune) rather than brute force memorisation. This is the order I've been working on so far:

Obviously, most people already know the 7 OCLLs (although you can learn shorter algs that don't preserve DFR).

The logical next step is the three basic insertions, followed by the easy to recognise no twisted corner case: (R U' R') U2 (R U R').

Then there are the 2 trigger cases - 24 of them, but you'll already know three of them, so it's actually only 21 new cases.

There are 13 cases that can be reduced to Sune/Antisune with an 3 move insert, and 10 which reduce to a 3 move insert by doing Sune/Antisune first.

Thats the first 55 cases without even having to learn any actual algs - just recognition.

Of the remaining 45 cases, all but 4 can be reduced to one of the above with just a 3 move insert. I'm busy trying to figure out rules to know which insertion and AUF to use without brute force memorisation, but have not yet spent that much time on it.

Hey AlphaSheep do you have this organization somewhere so people can learn this set first?

 

[wir3sandfir3s]

Ah ha, I have done it! I figured out how to learn TTLL Algs and I'm now steam rolling through them,mthanks for your help 4Chan!