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ZZ-CT Thread

Hello. I am a cfop user and I would like to learn this method by nationals. I know full oll and pll along with being able to recognize the cube being one trigger from an oll skip and the 72 2-sided pll recognitions.

I was wondering about y axis neutrality. It seems like it would be harder to ignore the FR slot if it isn't the same color each time. I would greatly appreciate advice directed to someone just learning zz and am interested in what orientation neutrality that other people use.

btw PTSD seems like an interesting concept. Good luck with it;)
 
lillod said:
Hello. I am a cfop user and I would like to learn this method by nationals. I know full oll and pll along with being able to recognize the cube being one trigger from an oll skip and the 72 2-sided pll recognitions.

I was wondering about y axis neutrality. It seems like it would be harder to ignore the FR slot if it isn't the same color each time. I would greatly appreciate advice directed to someone just learning zz and am interested in what orientation neutrality that other people use.

btw PTSD seems like an interesting concept. Good luck with it;)
Click to expand...
My main method is also cfop, but I also know ZZ, and as far as y axis neutrality goes, when I was learning ZZ I decided I wanted to be y axis neutral on white and yellow, so what I did was I solved in different orientations every solve and now it doesn't really seem to bother me when my block colors are always different. As for how this would affect TTLL recognition, I wouldn't know cause I only know like 7 of them...
 
IQubic said:
Actually, it wouldn't. See, in ZZ-CT we just solve the egde. The attached corner might be white, or it might be yellow. Either way TSLE is solved.
Click to expand...

but if you wanted an advanced version of TSLE that made it so you got a PLL case for TTLL, you would use this set of algs (although it's separated by F2L case). F2L + OLL is the same as TSLE + corner, because they both solve corner + edge + OLL
 
Cale S said:
but if you wanted an advanced version of TSLE that made it so you got a PLL case for TTLL, you would use this set of algs (although it's separated by F2L case). F2L + OLL is the same as TSLE + corner, because they both solve corner + edge + OLL
Click to expand...
TSLE + Corner is different from ZZ OLS. ZZ OLS assumes that the pair is already made, which is fine, but requires an extra step + look. TSLE + Corner requires you to learn 5 variations for each TSLE (one for each possible position of the White corner). However, at this point, we're just reinventing ZZ-C. ZZ-C is Corner + Edge + OCLL.
 
IQubic said:
TSLE + Corner is different from ZZ OLS. ZZ OLS assumes that the pair is already made, which is fine, but requires an extra step + look. TSLE + Corner requires you to learn 5 variations for each TSLE (one for each possible position of the White corner). However, at this point, we're just reinventing ZZ-C. ZZ-C is Corner + Edge + OCLL.
Click to expand...

ZZ OLS is the first step of ZZ-c. You insert the last F2L edge and corner (they don't have to be a pair as you said) and orient the LL, leaving PLL.
 
If you're using ZZ, why don't you just learn winter variation and summer variation instead of ZZ-CT? You would have to use on algorithm for last slot + OLL, and then one more for PLL, which most of us already know. Beyond that, you would have a 1/72 chance for an last layer skip (I'm assuming there statistic since the chance for a PLL skip is that). It also requires 54 algorithms if you do the WV/SV on your front right slot
 
Last edited:
ExultantCarn said:
If you're using ZZ, why don't you just learn winter variation and summer variation instead of ZZ-CT? You would have to use on algorithm for last slot + OLL, and then one more for PLL, most of us already know. Beyond that, you would have a 1/72 chance for an last layer skip (I'm assuming there statistic since the chance for a PLL skip is that). It also requires 54 algorithms if you do the WV/SV on your front right slot
Click to expand...
In ZZ-CT you don't need to pair the last F2l pair
 
The move expense for WV and SV (including making the pair) over ZZ-CT is only 2 moves, which can almost be recouped from the less restricted F2L configuration. The algorithm count, case recognition, and skip chances are also much better in WV/SV.

Speed-Heise also gives you a 1/27 chance of a LL skip at a lower alg and move expense than ZZ-CT. Or you could just solve the last 5 edges with simplified LPELL and insert the last corner with a commutator (completely intuitive) for the same effect. CT's approach is simply not an efficient means of reducing cubestates to generate a skip.
 
Last edited:
IQubic said:
TSLE + Corner is different from ZZ OLS. ZZ OLS assumes that the pair is already made, which is fine, but requires an extra step + look. TSLE + Corner requires you to learn 5 variations for each TSLE (one for each possible position of the White corner). However, at this point, we're just reinventing ZZ-C. ZZ-C is Corner + Edge + OCLL.
Click to expand...

OLS (like the document) covers all possible pair cases (and has the same algs as 5 per TSLE)
 
  • Chance of EO (1/2)^4
  • Chance of edge being in slot 1/5
  • Chance of coriented corners (1/3)^4
  • Chance that a last layer corner is in the slot 4/5
  • Multiply them to get .0123% or 1/8100
Interesting thing about the decimal is that it is (123456790) repeating. It skips the 8 for some reason.
EDIT the chance of skipping tsle or vls in zz is 1/405
 
lillod said:
  • Chance of EO (1/2)^4
  • Chance of edge being in slot 1/5
  • Chance of coriented corners (1/3)^4
  • Chance that a last layer corner is in the slot 4/5
  • Multiply them to get .0123% or 1/8100
Interesting thing about the decimal is that it is (123456790) repeating. It skips the 8 for some reason.
EDIT the chance of skipping tsle or vls in zz is 1/405
Click to expand...
wow and it was a good TTLL too not even a yucky one...
 
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