ZZ-CT For Beginners (22 algs) and ZZ-MGCT??

[PhillipEspinoza]

Hello Speedsolving, it's been a while.

First off, big Kudos and much love to Chris Tran for development of this new branch of ZZ that is sexy af. There's obviously been a lot of buzz around this new sub-method and for good reason. It provides a LS+LL alternative where LL can be solved in 1-look but with less than half of the algs needed to do so otherwise via methods like ZB. I personally have been spending time learning this method (mainly because as speed goes you have to develop other goals to make you feel better about yourself) and find it to be really appealing and addicting to learn. There's nothing like coming across a TTLL and thinking "OH OH! I KNOW THAT ONE!". My main goal in learning has been to learn it for OH, as it could provide an extra edge (pun) needed for the fast OH times these days. For reference, I strongly suggest you visit the ZZ-CT Thread and read the entire thread. It really is a great method and seems like with practice you can get some pretty awesome times, especially with the greater chances of an LL skip.

That high alg count tho :\

For someone like Chris Tran who has already learned (and re-learned) the entire ZB method, maybe ~180 algs seems like nothing). But for the rest of us, a low alg count (sub-50) is what makes a method desirable as well.

This is why I've put together a 4-look 22-alg bridge method to learning ZZ-CT. I guarantee you if you learn this 4-look method first instead of trying to mass-learn all of ZZ-CT, you will develop greater intuition and speed with ZZ-CT and master it like OLL/PLL.

ALSO: In developing this beginner's method with only 22 algs, I came up with the idea of combining MGLS with ZZ-CT to develop a comparable method with 88 algs total (16 TSLE/CLS and 72 TTLL). Keep reading.

1) ELS Borrowed from MGLS, this step will be very intuitive as it will simply be a matter of inserting the last edge which, thanks to ZZ orientation of edges, will usually just be a matter of (R U' R'), or other similar type of insertions. The great news is that 20% of the time you will skip this step! 1/5 times the edge will already be placed in the LS position. The percentage is greater if you find some way to insert edge during the building of the 1.5 blocks. Combine this with cancellation moves typical during block building and I figure you have an added move count of about 1.5 (sometimes your insertion will simply be an R'). Even this is probably diminished down to 1 if you consider the turns saved by not restricting yourself to RFD as your LS. That's right, you don't have to re-learn your eye to block-build while saving a specific 1x1x2 block, nor do you mess up any good pairs or skip over good blocks, and neither do you have to ADF. You might have to do one extra rotation but that's it, and because the edge is inserted, you don't have to worry about the edge orientation after a rotation for TSLE. This step is so trivial in fact, it could even be considered as not an extra look but as an extension of other blocks that you build.

2) OCLL/TSLE. 16 algs, 10.25 avg move count. This is just the 16 non-OLL TSLE cases that have the edge already inserted.
Cw

R U R' U' R U R' U R U' R'

R U2 R' U2 R U R' U R U' R'
R U L U' R' U L'

R U2 R' U R U2 R' U2 R U R'

U' R U2 R' U R U R'
U' R U2 R' U R U R'

U2 R U' R' U' R U R' U' R U2 R'

R U2 R' U' R U R' U R U R'

U R U R' U' R U R' U R U2 R' U' R U2 R'

U R U R' U2 R U R'
Ccw

R U' R' U R U R' U R U' R'
L D' L' U L D L

U2 R U' R' U' R U2 R'

R U R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R'

U' R U' R' U2 R U' R'
U' R U' R' U2 R U' R'

U' R U' R' U R U2 R' U R U' R'

U R U R' U' R U U R' U' R U' R' U R U R'

R U2 R' U R U R' U R U2 R' U' R U' R'

U2 R U' R' U R U R' U' R U R'

3) LC-COLL (Last Corner - COLL). *copied from my original post in ZZ-CT thread* I've developed a beginners method for people who aren't beast alg learners like you (Tran). It involves just splitting the TTLL algs into COLL equivalents. So since this method is like a ZB substitute (like Splenda or, let's say Stevia), it makes sense for me to learn to recognize the COLL case first to train my eyes to TTLL more efficiently. That's how I recog a lot of ZBLL cases, I fortunately learned COLL first and it made a great stepping stone to learn some ZB algs. So there can be an intermediate step to TTLL where you just do an easy TTLL case to force an edge PLL. This can be referred to as COTTL (Corners Orient Tran Thomas Last Layer) and can be reduced to the 6 cases that you have to learn to recognize anyway. This will only add 1 to 2 seconds to your time and allow you to get a gauge on what to expect as you start learning to recog and execute the specific TTLL cases. To someone liker Mr. Tran who can learn this method in a day with a gun to his head, this may seem ridiculous or unnecessary. But to the masses that want to make this more doable, this could be a great stepping stone. I'll post my favorite TTLL algs for each case as a suggestion for COTTL algs (again, I'm learning for OH so these will have an OH bias in terms of executablity, except both opp).

Front Bar:

*G PERM* y' (R U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 F2)

Right Bar:

*G PERM* (U F2) (R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 y L' U L')

All Bars:

*J2 PERM* (R) U L' U2 R U' R' U2 L R U' R2

Both Opposite:

U2 x (R' U R U')X4 x'

Front Opposite (2-gen):
(IMAGE MAX REACHED)
R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2

Right Opposite (2-gen):
(IMAGE MAX REACHED)
y' R2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2

4) EPLL you should be left with a simple edge cycle OR sometimes you end up with a skip, which, if you learn to adequately recognize the case you should be able to foresee. This will happen 1/12 times.


Again, I highly encourage this as a bridge method to learning full ZZ-CT, and I don't propose it as a viable speed method in and of itself any more than I suggest a 4-look CFOP LL as a speed method. Also, remember that when learning a new method at first you will definitely be slower for a good long time, even after you feel like you have good grip on what I like to call the RRR (Recognition, Recall, and React) times of the algs. Don't give up, you will get faster. Trust the process, and remember that you were slow with F2L or block-building at first, until you practiced the hell out of it.

ZZ-MGCT
As much as I don't like to contribute to the various names of methods and sub-methods to remember, I thought this new idea for a combination of sub-methods had some merit. Basically, the strength lies in the ability to insert the final edge in any slot "on the fly" during the block building leading up to the last slot. Ideally, you will block build as you normally do during ZZ and if you see an opportunity to insert an edge by itself or if the edge is already inserted as part of that block you can move on to finish the rest of the block building. Sometimes you won't naturally come across any opportune moments to insert the final edge until you get to the last slot, in which case you will have to insert it as you are finishing the final 1x2x2 block (or worst case scenario you have to do a separate look/trigger to insert the edge which will add 0.5 seconds). Ideally though, you want to do ELS on the fly during block building. This is of course borrowed from MGLS and I think it has extra strength with ZZ. It's almost like phasing, but simpler. It is my belief that the time and moves added because of this ELS step will be negligible. The average move count of ZZ-CT is around 49, I believe the move count of this method will be 50-51. And because ELS will be done on the fly, it will essentially phase down TSLE to 16 algs where edge is already placed (minus the OLL cross cases you already know). This takes the alg count down from 108? for TSLE to 16. Combine this with full TTLL and you get 88 algs total to learn. For those lazy people who want something attainable, I think this is worth a shot.

 

[gyroninja]

Why are you using bad algs for front bar and right bar? I think these algs are better.

Front Bar: R U R' U' R U' R' U' R U R' U' R' D' R U R' D R
Right Bar: R2 A perm

I'm also not a fan of inserting the edge everytime since you are practicing cases that will rarely show up once you actually start learning more algs and there isn't really a good way to transition into adding more algs. The way I would suggest doing it even though it's less efficient would be to learn cases with 0 or 1 misoriented corners (not including ufr). Then at tsle you spam sexy until you get a case you know and then you do it. While less efficient I think it would be easier to start integrating more and more algs.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

That's cool you think those algs are better. Maybe others will too. The algs I chose included PLL algs so you dont have to "learn" anything new. Sorry to hear you're not a fan of edge insertion. Dasokay doe cuz the good thing is you don't has to be fan. If you no like suggestion, you can simply move on.

20% of the time is not really too rare.

Also, if you decide to do LS edge insertion during block building, you can increase the likelihood of running into those algs by opening up your LS to include any of the slots. The idea with MGCT would be to rarely if ever have to do a pure insertion of R U' R'.

Just practicing with this beginners method, with EPLL and all, I got a couple of 15 second times OH. Which is good for me for ZZ.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

B2 D2 U F' R2 U' L B2 F U' L' R F' D' L2 F' B2 R U' F' D' L' D F2 U2

(crappy) EO Line: z2 x' U' R D x U' x U' L' U' x' z2 U' R' U (10/10)
z' R U R' U R U' (6/16)
U' R U z' R U R (6/22)
U2 U' R U R U' R' U (8/30)
TSLE skip
TTLL: R2 U R2 D U R2 D' R2 U2 R2 D R2 D' (13/43)

I feel like TSLE skips are more likely with this method and TSLE > PLL happens more frequently. Will post more example solves but I have averaged 15 sec OH with a 12 second single even using the beginners method. It really makes it seem as if you skip the LS and just go into a simplified OLL into a slightly more complicated PLL. I really think this variation is worth it. I rarely get 12 second times OH with ZZ and this one felt fast. All this even with my crappy EO lines.


L' B2 U L' U R' B U' R' L2 F' R' B' F' R F2 R B U2 B D' L2 B' F' L2

EO Line: z2 R2 U' L D F' (5/5)
2x2x3: U' L U' L' U L2 R U R U L (11/16)
1x2x2 w/LSE: R U' R' U2 R2 U R (7/23)
TSLE: *TRIGGER* R U' R' U R U' R' U R U' R' (11/34)
TTLL: (U') y' U R2 U2 R' U R U' R U2 R2 U' R' U' R (15/49)

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

For personal reference and to add on to my main method of getting a LL skip every 1 of 12 solves, I'll add my COPLS algs here I think it would in total be around 156 algs to do CPLS and end up with an edge cycle for LL. This is with my pseudo slot idea I'll post about later. This is to orient and permute LL corners while inserting the corner of the last slot resulting in an edge cylce:

BAD CORNER IN UFR
L -

1) F2 U' F2 U' R U L' U2 R' U' L F2 (12f*) //NO SWAP
2) U' R U' R' U L' U R U' R' L (11f*) //LEFT SWAP
3) U R U' R2 U' R' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R' U' R (14f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
4) F' L F R F' L' F R' (8f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
R L' U' L U R U' L' U R2 L (11f) // DIAGONAL SWAP RUL
5) R U R' U' R U' R' L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L (14f*) //RIGHT SWAP
6) U L U' R U L' U R' U' R U' R' (12f*) //FRONT SWAP


L +

1) L U' R U L' U R' U R U R' (11f*) //NO SWAP
2) L U L' U' R U2 L U2 L' U2 R' (11f*) //FRONT SWAP
U R U L' U R' U' L U2 R U R' (12f) //FRONT SWAP #2
3) U2 L' U2 R2 L U' L' U R2 U2 L (11f*) //LEFT SWAP 3 GEN
y' U R2 U R' U R2 U R' U' R' U2 R' U R' (14f*) //LEFT SWAP 2GEN OPT
y' U R' U R U R' U2 R U R' U2 R U R' U R (16f) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
4) U R U2 R' U2 R U R' U2 R U2 R' (12f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
5) U R U L U' R2 U L' U' R (10f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
6) R' U R' D R2 D' R2 U' R D R' D' R (13f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUD
U2 R U' R' U' R U' L U' R' U L' (12f*) //RIGHT SWAP OPT


L O CCW

1) U R U R' U2 L' U R U' L U' R' U R U' R' (16f*) //NO SWAP
R U' R' L' U R2 U' L U R' U' R' U R U' R' (16f*) //NO SWAP #2
2) U2 R' U2 R U2 R' D' R U' R' U D R (13f*) //FRONT SWAP
3) U R' U R U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U' R U' R (14f*) //BACK SWAP
4) U R2 U2 R D R2 U' R U' R' U2 R2 D' R (14f) //RIGHT SWAP 3gen RUD
5) L' U2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 L (10f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP GOOD CLS
U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 L' U R2 U' R2 L (11f) //DIAGONAL SWAP #2
6) y' U' R U' R' U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U R' U R' (14f*) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
U' R' L U' R2 U' R2 U2 R U R U2 R' L' (14f*) //LEFT SWAP 3 GEN
U' R L U' R' U R U2 R' U' R U R' U L' (15f) //LEFT SWAP 3GEN

L O CW

1) R U R' U' R U R U' L' U R2 U' R L U R' (16f*) //NO SWAP
R U R' U' R U L' U R' U' L U2 R U' R' (15f*) //NO SWAP RUL
U2 D' L' U L D R2 D2 L' U' L U D2 R2 (14f*) //NO SWAP OPT
2) U L U' R U L' U R' U2 R U2 R' U' R U R' (16f) //FRONT SWAP RUL
U R2 U2 R D R U' R2 U' R2 U R' D' R (14f*) //FRONT SWAP RUD
R' U R' U R2 U R2 U2 D' R U' R' D R2 (14f*) //FRONT SWAP RUD
3) R U R' U' R L' U R' U' R L U R' (13f) //LEFT SWAP
y' U' R' U' R U R' U2 R U2 R' U2 R (12f*) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
4) U R U R' U' R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' (12f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
5) D R' U' R2 D' R2 U R' D R2 D' R2 U' R2 (14f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUD
U2 R U2 R U' L' U R2 U' L U2 R U R' (14f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUL
U2 R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U' L U' R U L' U R'(16f) //RIGHT SWAP RUL
6) L' U R U' L U2 R' U' R U2 R' U R U' R' (15f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
6) U' R U R' U' R U R' L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L (15f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP TRIGGER

U - UFR CCW

U2 R U2 R' U2 R U R' U' R U R' U' (13f*) - BACK SWAP
F R' U L' U' R2 U L U' R' F' (11f) - RIGHT SWAP
R2 U D' R U' R' D R2 U' R' U2 R' U2 R2 U (14f) - RIGHT SWAP (RUD)
U' R U2 R U' L' U R2 U' L U R U2 R' U (14f) - RIGHT SWAP (RUL)
U R U2 L' U L U2 R U' L' U R2 U L (14f*) - NO SWAP
U R U R' L U L' U' R U2 L U2 R' L' U (15f) - NO SWAP
R' U R U2 R' D R' U' R U2 D' R' U' R2 (14f*) - NO SWAP
U R2 L' U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U' L U' (12f*) - FRONT SWAP
U R U' L' U2 L U2 L' U R' L U L' U' L (15f) - FRONT SWAP
D R' L' U R U' L U' R' U R U2 D' (13f*) DIAGONAL SWAP
D' R U2 R' D R U' R' U D' R U2 R' U2 D (15f*) DIAGONAL SWAP
D R U2 R' D' R U' R' U D R U2 R' U2 D' (15f*) DIAGONAL SWAP
y' R' U' R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 (12f*) LEFT SWAP

 

[Y2k1]

For personal reference and to add on to my main method of getting a LL skip every 1 of 12 solves, I'll add my COPLS algs here I think it would in total be around 156 algs to do CPLS and end up with an edge cycle for LL. This is with my pseudo slot idea I'll post about later:

L -
1) F2 L' U R U2 L U' R' U F2 U F2 (12f*) //NO SWAP
2) L' R U R' U' L U' R U R' U (11f*) //LEFT SWAP
3) R' U R U2 R2 U2 R' U2 R U R2 U R' U' (14f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
4) R F' L F R' F' L' F (8f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
R L' U' L U R U' L' U R2 L (11f) // DIAGONAL SWAP RUL
5) L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L R U R' U R U' R' (14f*) //RIGHT SWAP
6) R U R' U R U' L U' R' U L' U' (12f*) //FRONT SWAP

L +
1) U2 R U' R' U' R U' L U' R' U L' (12f*) //NO SWAP
2) U R U2 L U2 L' U2 R' U L U' L' (12f*) //FRONT SWAP
U2 R U' R' U2 L' U R U' L U' R' U' (13f) //FRONT SWAP #2
3) U2 L' U2 R2 U' L U L' R2 U2 L U2 (12f*) //LEFT SWAP 3 GEN
y' U R U' R U2 R U R U' R2 U' R U' R2 U' (15f*) //LEFT SWAP 2GEN OPT
y' R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U' R' U' R U' (16f) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
4) U2 R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U' (13f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
U2 R U2 R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R' U R' U' (13f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
R' U2 R' U2 R U' R U R2 U2 R U2 R (13f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
5) U2 R' U L U' R2 U L' U' R' U' (11f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
6) R' U R' D R2 D' R2 U' R D R' D' R (13f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUD
U2 R U' R' U' R U' L U' R' U L' (12f*) //RIGHT SWAP OPT

L O CCW
1) R U R' U' R U L' U R' U' L U2 R U' R' U' (16f*) //NO SWAP
R U R' U' R U R U' L' U R2 U' L R U R' (16f*) //NO SWAP #2
2) U R' D' U' R U R' D R U2 R' U2 R U2 (14f*) //FRONT SWAP
3) R' U R' U R2 U2 R2 U R2 U R' U' R U' (14f*) //BACK SWAP
4) U R' D R2 U2 R U R' U R2 D' R' U2 R2 U' (15f) //RIGHT SWAP 3gen RUD
5) U' L' R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 L (11f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP GOOD CLS
U' L' R2 U R2 U' L U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 (12f) //DIAGONAL SWAP #2
6) y' R U' R U' R2 U2 R2 U' R2 U' R U R' U (14f*) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
L R U2 R' U' R' U2 R2 U R2 U L' R U (14f*) //LEFT SWAP 3 GEN
L U' R U' R' U R U2 R' U' R U L' R' U (15f) //LEFT SWAP 3GEN

L O CW
1) R U' L' R' U R2 U' L U R' U' R' U R U' R' (16f*) //NO SWAP
U R U R' U2 L' U R U' L U' R' U R U' R' (16f*) //NO SWAP RUL
R2 D2 U' L' U L D2 R2 D' L' U' L D U2 (14f*) //NO SWAP OPT
2) R U' R' U R U2 R' U2 R U' L U' R' U L' U' (16f) //FRONT SWAP RUL
R' D R U' R2 U R2 U R' D' R' U2 R2 U' (14f*) //FRONT SWAP RUD
R2 D' R U R' D U2 R2 U' R2 U' R U' R (14f*) //FRONT SWAP RUD
3) U R U' L' R' U R U' L R' U R U' R' (14f) //LEFT SWAP
U R' U2 R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R U (13f*) //LEFT SWAP 2 GEN
4) U' R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R U' R' U' (13f*) //BACK SWAP 2 GEN
5) R2 U R2 D R2 D' R U' R2 D R2 U R D' (14f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUD
U' R U' R' U2 L' U R2 U' L U R' U2 R' U2 (15f*) //RIGHT SWAP RUL
R U' L U' R' U L' U R U R' U2 R U2 R' U2 (16f) //RIGHT SWAP RUL
6) R U R' U' R U2 R' U R U2 L' U R' U' L (15f*) //DIAGONAL SWAP
6) U' L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L R U' R' U R U' R' U (16f) //DIAGONAL SWAP TRIGGER

What is COPLS? Also want to thank you for my new 3lll

 

[Shiv3r]

This actually seems really awesome! now only if I wasnt trash at EOline...

 

[genericcuber666]

so how do you propose people go from your tsle subset to full tsle i learnt the algs at the start but now i just use pseudo wv

 

[Shiv3r]

That's cool you think those algs are better. Maybe others will too. The algs I chose included PLL algs so you dont have to "learn" anything new. Sorry to hear you're not a fan of edge insertion. Dasokay doe cuz the good thing is you don't has to be fan. If you no like suggestion, you can simply move on.

20% of the time is not really too rare.

Also, if you decide to do LS edge insertion during block building, you can increase the likelihood of running into those algs by opening up your LS to include any of the slots. The idea with MGCT would be to rarely if ever have to do a pure insertion of R U' R'.

Just practicing with this beginners method, with EPLL and all, I got a couple of 15 second times OH. Which is good for me for ZZ.

I use either ZZ or Roux for one handed, and I think that if I actually can learn the algs then for OH I may use this full-time. we just need a really good guide for one-handed EOline, since that is where I always get hung up.

hey, since the pictures on the original post didn't show up, would you mind reposting them?

 

[Shiv3r]

also, alg for both opposite I use(color scheme is wrong on the pic btw)
U2 (R' F R F')x3

 

[Skewbed]

If anyone is interested, I made a page on my website with these algs. Soon, it will highlight the ones that you didn't learn:
https://skewbed.github.io/main/2016/08/21/zz-ct-beginner.html

 

[Mags]

Almost 10 years after this post, I theorized MGCT with my cousin, name of the method and everything, almost exactly as you did, but rather we did it as a fun alternative to ZB intended to be used with CFOP, which also gave us an excuse to mess around with ZZCT because it seems really cool. While we do not engage in this method ourselves, we thought it might be fun to learn and use at some point even though it provides minimal benefits, if any, to CFOP users.

The only difference is with my cousin and I's variant, you just go straight into TSLE and TTLE right after ELS, making it a 3-look last layer without a bridge method. But it's cool to see how far back some of these ideas really go, just goes to show how much people have been playing around with these ideas.

And I think some of the more recent threads by MGLS users mentioned using TTLL as an optimization. Almost 10 years of speedcubing and I'm only now just hearing about the communities using these niche methods drowned out by CFOP, Roux, and ZZ.