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We need better judges.

Do you agree?

  • Strongly disagree

    Votes: 8 5.8%
  • Disagree

    Votes: 21 15.3%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 25 18.2%
  • Agree

    Votes: 53 38.7%
  • Strongly agree.

    Votes: 30 21.9%

  • Total voters
    137
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Thread starter #61
I thought this was dead. So according to ronaldm it seems like the judges in the Uk are good because their are less nubs. Right? Now here is an Idea that could help for all the 10 year olds. What if the Organizers had best judge of the day awards? It wouldn't be a reg, but if you are older, you will follow it better and if you are younger, motivation can help. Do you think this could help it at all? I think it could because it is mostly the young judges that screw up.









The judges at most Ohio comps are actually pretty good, and if you tell them they made a mistake they are always nice about it and fix it!
What about the Nebraska judges?
 
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#62
I thought this was dead. So according to ronaldm it seems like the judges in the Uk are good because their are less nubs. Right? Now here is an Idea that could help for all the 10 year olds. What if the Organizers had best judge of the day awards? It wouldn't be a reg, but if you are older, you will follow it better and if you are younger, motivation can help. Do you think this could help it at all? I think it could because it is mostly the young judges that screw up.










What about the Nebraska judges?
Nebraska judges were A+

Source: was in Nebraska
 
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#63
I thought this was dead. So according to ronaldm it seems like the judges in the Uk are good because their are less nubs. Right? Now here is an Idea that could help for all the 10 year olds. What if the Organizers had best judge of the day awards? It wouldn't be a reg, but if you are older, you will follow it better and if you are younger, motivation can help. Do you think this could help it at all? I think it could because it is mostly the young judges that screw up.
This will never be a dead topic, as quality of judging is important to having a good comp.

We may indeed be lucky that we have a good amount of experienced cubers vs. new competitors. However, my main point was that we have a system in place (not even written down afaik, it just grew that way and is now the standard) of having new judges shadowing first before being shadowed, and having experienced people that are not afraid to correct judges. Having more experienced cubers does make that process easier, but even with just a few experienced cubers you can quickly get a number of new competitors up to speed in judging at at least a decent level. Also, judges here are not afraid to either ask an experienced competitor or even a delegate for help if they aren't 100% sure.
I'm not sure if a judge of the day award would do any good. First of all it's hard to figure out who the best judge is (unless you check all judges on every solve they judge, which imo is a waste of manpower), plus you'll get a lot of sad faces from judges that don't win the award. All in all that means it may even work counter-productive, and put people off of judging, and create animosity, as they'll start pointing fingers about mistakes someone who won an award may or may not have made. Also, it may stop judges from asking for help from experienced cubers/delegates when they aren't 100% sure, as that may mean they won't win the award. I feel having such an award moves the focus from good judging, to appearing to be a good judge just for the sake of winning an award.
When we are short for judges, there is a tactic I use that tends to work well: Instead of calling out in general (which doesn't work), or approaching people individually (which they don't like), I walk up to a table with a few cubers, and tell them all that one of them has to come help judge, and they can discuss among themselves who that should be. It keeps everything light-hearted, and gives them the responsibility to sort it. And we all know people (especially children) like to feel they have some decision-power and responsibility ;) Also, the more experienced judges will usually be the one that will then 'volunteer' to judge.
 
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Thread starter #64
First of all it's hard to figure out who the best judge is (unless you check all judges on every solve they judge, which imo is a waste of manpower)
Well I don't know if you are religious or not, but here at churches they do things like that just so they know their is a prize on the line. I don't know about UK comps, but in the US at the end their is only about 20 people for comps that start with 100 people and half those people are staff. You also would generally give the younger cuber who is trying harder to be a good judge rather then the person who knows all the +2 penalties and has been to 20+ comps. Do you see what I am saying? I agree with what you are saying. Comps in the UK seem so much better because of the ratio of nubs to experienced cubers.
 
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#65
Could we please as a whole refrain from calling anyone this and similarly derogatory terms? This is not COD Multiplayer.

Might sound silly, but IMO one of the best things about this community is how welcoming it is to anyone. I get that it is said tongue in cheek, but newcomers might not.
 
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#66
Could we please as a whole refrain from calling anyone this and similarly derogatory terms? This is not COD Multiplayer.

Might sound silly, but IMO one of the best things about this community is how welcoming it is to anyone. I get that it is said tongue in cheek, but newcomers might not.
AMEN!!!
 
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#67
I thought this was dead. So according to ronaldm it seems like the judges in the Uk are good because their are less nubs. Right? Now here is an Idea that could help for all the 10 year olds. What if the Organizers had best judge of the day awards? It wouldn't be a reg, but if you are older, you will follow it better and if you are younger, motivation can help. Do you think this could help it at all? I think it could because it is mostly the young judges that screw up.
Judging awards is a good motivation for better judging, however a lot of people leave well before the awards, and if any of those people decide to volunteer to judge, they won't really have that same motivation as they won't be there to receive an award anyway.
 
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#69
I think another problem is judges during blind. I was at a competition doing blind and my judge didn't hold the paper in front of my eyes very well, so while doing the attempt the paper kept brushing my hands and got very distracting. Blind takes a lot of concentration and you don't want it wasted on focusing on other things like what your judge is doing.
 
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#70
I think some judges overenforce the timer start rule. I think this is because people always talk about "starting the timer with your fingertips", which I don't normally do, but there is no such requirement, only a requirement to start the timer with your fingers. I've only been penalized for that once (back then I wasn't sure about the regulation so I didn't try to correct the judge because it was at Nationals) but yesterday at Nationals I had the same judge for the last 3 solves of the second round, and on the first one, which was a legal timer start, he gave me a warning about starting the timer with my fingertips, so on the next solve I started the timer with my fingertips because I was scared about getting a +2 and then ended up with a 12 anyway. The final solve was similar to the third solve, with a legal timer start using my fingers and not necessarily my fingertips, and he acted like he was going to give me a +2, but he decided not to.

Even though I wasn't directly penalized for it, the unwarranted warnings made me really nervous and although I can't say for sure it impacted my time it would be nice if organizers who explain judging don't say anything about fingertips specifically, because that gives a false idea of what the actual rule is.

For reference:
A4b) The competitor uses their fingers to touch the elevated sensor surfaces of the timer. The competitor's palms must be facing down, and located on the side of the timer that is closer to the competitor. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds).
 

Bob

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#71
I think some judges overenforce the timer start rule. I think this is because people always talk about "starting the timer with your fingertips", which I don't normally do, but there is no such requirement, only a requirement to start the timer with your fingers. I've only been penalized for that once (back then I wasn't sure about the regulation so I didn't try to correct the judge because it was at Nationals) but yesterday at Nationals I had the same judge for the last 3 solves of the second round, and on the first one, which was a legal timer start, he gave me a warning about starting the timer with my fingertips, so on the next solve I started the timer with my fingertips because I was scared about getting a +2 and then ended up with a 12 anyway. The final solve was similar to the third solve, with a legal timer start using my fingers and not necessarily my fingertips, and he acted like he was going to give me a +2, but he decided not to.

Even though I wasn't directly penalized for it, the unwarranted warnings made me really nervous and although I can't say for sure it impacted my time it would be nice if organizers who explain judging don't say anything about fingertips specifically, because that gives a false idea of what the actual rule is.

For reference:
A4b) The competitor uses their fingers to touch the elevated sensor surfaces of the timer. The competitor's palms must be facing down, and located on the side of the timer that is closer to the competitor. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds).
I wish you had brought that to our attention at the competition--we would have addressed the judge.
 
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#73
I should have, but I was a bit excited about my first 9 average so I didn't think of it.
After watching your video, I think a warning on the 3rd solve is perfectly acceptable. It was a half finger, half palm start. I always ask competitors to make it abundantly clear that they start with their fingers and indicate this by showing them the crease that their figures create and saying they need to start above that line.
 
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#74
After watching your video, I think a warning on the 3rd solve is perfectly acceptable. It was a half finger, half palm start. I always ask competitors to make it abundantly clear that they start with their fingers and indicate this by showing them the crease that their figures create and saying they need to start above that line.
The camera angle wasn't great for telling that, but I guess I can see how that's somewhat close. I could definitely try to have better timer starts but I also think that that rule shouldn't be overapplied.
 
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#75
Alright, I was judging at a Colorado comp, and the organizers said it was normal practice to sign my initials before, so i did that.

Well that might be a mistake.

I have disgraced everyone. Sorry for being a bad judge.

(Oh also another confession, I solved during mitch's 5x5 finals)

EDIT: This was my first comp. I plan to be a better judge at my next comp :)
 
Last edited:

Kit Clement

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#76
Alright, I was judging at a Colorado comp, and the organizers said it was normal practice to sign my initials before, so i did that.

Well that might be a mistake.

I have disgraced everyone. Sorry for being a bad judge.
Before what? If you mean before they complete their solve, then yes, you shouldn't sign for an empty box. Lots of things could happen (timer malfunction, duplicate scramble, etc.) that would result in you not actually being the judge for that attempt.

If you mean before the competitor signs, that's actually the correct procedure.
 
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#77
Before what? If you mean before they complete their solve, then yes, you shouldn't sign for an empty box. Lots of things could happen (timer malfunction, duplicate scramble, etc.) that would result in you not actually being the judge for that attempt.

If you mean before the competitor signs, that's actually the correct procedure.
I signed during inspection. I should have closely read the regs before i volunteered to judge.
 
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#78
I signed during inspection. I should have closely read the regs before i volunteered to judge.
Thank you for admitting this. (Bold) If every1 did this, we'd be fine...

Just random... how did "nub" even originate?

Beginner/ new person -> newbie -> noob -> nub? TBH that's p ******* re******* for an etymology.
 

Kit Clement

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#79
Thank you for admitting this. (Bold) If every1 did this, we'd be fine...

Just random... how did "nub" even originate?

Beginner/ new person -> newbie -> noob -> nub? TBH that's p ******* re******* for an etymology.
TBH so is the quality/quantity ratio of your posts.
 
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