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[ruffleduck]

Do we know of any major feature differences as to why the Moyu WeiLong WR M 2020 is $35 and the 2021 is $25? Is this hopefully just a nice trend in prices or do we know with confidence that major features have been removed to cut cost?

To me it seems like it's a trend. The tornado v2 was a lot cheaper than all of us thought it would be, and Moyu likely wants to compete with that. From reviews I've seen the WRM 2021 seems like a great cube. No removed features. On the contrary, Moyu finally embraces the trend of adjustable magnets.

 

[Zain_A24]

Do we know of any major feature differences as to why the Moyu WeiLong WR M 2020 is $35 and the 2021 is $25? Is this hopefully just a nice trend in prices or do we know with confidence that major features have been removed to cut cost?

No removal of features. Just happens to be cheaper.

 

[SH03L4C3]

No removal of features. Just happens to be cheaper.

I think its the natural maturation of the market for moyu.

 

[Zain_A24]

I think its the natural maturation of the market for moyu.

Mainly the fact that they want to compete against the Tornado V2.

 

[Sub1Hour]

Mainly the fact that they want to compete against the Tornado V2.

I’m very pleased with the price of cubes dropping recently. First the MGC cubes have all been fantastic, then these new flagships come out in the 20-30$ range. I’m much more willing to buy a new main when it’s not breaking my bank too much so I can put that extra money into getting lube or premium versions.

 

[xyzzy]

I have just seen the corner cap design on the Tornado v2 and the similarity to the Valk Elite's corner caps is worrying, because the #2 issue I have with the Valk Elite is that the corner caps don't lock into the base strongly enough and the overhanging bit is a tad too flexible, so they'll catch on anything at every opportunity (edge pieces, centre pieces, fingernails, …), causing lockups and corner twists. If the Tornado v2 exhibits the same flaw, that's a hard pass from me.

(The #1 issue I have with the Valk Elite is that I just don't get good times on it for whatever reason, but that's subjective and not an objective flaw of the puzzle.)

 

[Sub1Hour]

I have just seen the corner cap design on the Tornado v2 and the similarity to the Valk Elite's corner caps is worrying, because the #2 issue I have with the Valk Elite is that the corner caps don't lock into the base strongly enough and the overhanging bit is a tad too flexible, so they'll catch on anything at every opportunity (edge pieces, centre pieces, fingernails, …), causing lockups and corner twists. If the Tornado v2 exhibits the same flaw, that's a hard pass from me.

(The #1 issue I have with the Valk Elite is that I just don't get good times on it for whatever reason, but that's subjective and not an objective flaw of the puzzle.)

I haven't noticed the catching a ton on my valk elite but the corner caps to love to pop out slightly all the time. It's extremely annoying

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

I’m much more willing to buy a new main when it’s not breaking my bank too much so I can put that extra money into getting lube or premium versions.

Ditto. I have a hard time justifying the costs of new 3x3 flagships. I’m no elite solver so whatever supposed benefits come from these “high end” cubes don’t really affect a solver at my level. After $20 I start to ask serious questions. I’d rather spend anything in excess of $20 on professional setup and premium line puzzles (lube and setup) that actually have a difference in feeling compared to the stock variety.

 

[zslane]

The Tornado v2 is probably the first 3x3 puzzle that I'm really glad has all the adjustability options that it does. I've had to adjust the spring tension and magnet strength to get it where I like it. It is a $25 puzzle, and had any of its three adjustability features been removed to make it $5 cheaper, it probably wouldn't have been worth getting (for me).

 

[Dan the Beginner]

There is something not talked about much regarding these cubes and it has to do with, I can't think of a better word here, but I call it- repeatability of settings. When you have access to the screws and then have to put springs back, there is an issue. How tight do you screw it back onto the centre axles. Counting the number of screw threads or trying to do it by feel (how tight the screw driver is turning) or looking at the gaps between layers as you stretch them, is not accurate, and you most likely will set it differently each time you re-assemble it. Any variance will affect the spring compression setting you do later, whether using the Tornado V2's preset marks or using the MoYu or other system's adjustment method. With a rivet fixing the spring position permanently, you have a reliable way of setting spring compression consistently. It may not be totally even, but it makes your subsequent settings repeatable and your experimentation of settings meaningful. As one setting affects another setting in turning performance (spring compression/tension/magnet strength), this repeatability is very useful for going back and re-adjustments, when trialing different combination of settings. Someone who is meticulous and very precise in feeling and taking notes may be able to do a better job resetting the cube, but for most, I think this rivet is more reliable, fast and simple. It's like a calibration that you can always go back to. If springs loose their tension through use, then you can also tighten the spring compression setting a notch and know that it is again a settings made with a known reference. There is also an issue with evenness for the 6 sides. Again, I think I would rather rely on the factory setting there to help me and just turn the knob to the next higher or lower setting than trying to feel how tight a screw is. With everything made by automated processes, I believe Tornado's way of adustmment, including the rivet, is a good enough solution to simplify the adjustmnets, unless you find the cube's tightness/tension cannot be adjusted for your style and therefore need a stronger/weaker set of springs.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

The MoYu smartcube will be announced today. Being the newest, I hope it has learnt from the mistakes in earlier ones. It's apparently built with a Weilong like body.

Video link

 

[OreKehStrah]

There is something not talked about much regarding these cubes and it has to do with, I can't think of a better word here, but I call it- repeatability of settings. When you have access to the screws and then have to put springs back, there is an issue. How tight do you screw it back onto the centre axles. Counting the number of screw threads or trying to do it by feel (how tight the screw driver is turning) or looking at the gaps between layers as you stretch them, is not accurate, and you most likely will set it differently each time you re-assemble it. Any variance will affect the spring compression setting you do later, whether using the Tornado V2's preset marks or using the MoYu or other system's adjustment method. With a rivet fixing the spring position permanently, you have a reliable way of setting spring compression consistently. It may not be totally even, but it makes your subsequent settings repeatable and your experimentation of settings meaningful. As one setting affects another setting in turning performance (spring compression/tension/magnet strength), this repeatability is very useful for going back and re-adjustments, when trialing different combination of settings. Someone who is meticulous and very precise in feeling and taking notes may be able to do a better job resetting the cube, but for most, I think this rivet is more reliable, fast and simple. It's like a calibration that you can always go back to. If springs loose their tension through use, then you can also tighten the spring compression setting a notch and know that it is again a settings made with a known reference. There is also an issue with evenness for the 6 sides. Again, I think I would rather rely on the factory setting there to help me and just turn the knob to the next higher or lower setting than trying to feel how tight a screw is. With everything made by automated processes, I believe Tornado's way of adustmment, including the rivet, is a good enough solution to simplify the adjustmnets, unless you find the cube's tightness/tension cannot be adjusted for your style and therefore need a stronger/weaker set of springs.

Typically, as long as the tensions are reasonably close most people won’t notice much difference. However, there are 2 ways to circumvent this problem, which you can also combine if you are super adamant about maintaining exact tensions. Assume you have a cube with the exact same tensions on every side you wish to disassemble and relube the core, then reassemble in the exact configuration. What you can do is only remove one side and center, set up the hardware, then reinstall that sides center pieces and adjust it until it matches the other 5 pieces. Repeat. You can also use a set of calipers and measure the distance between the core and the center when you pull the center pieces all the way out to the screw head. You can combine these two methods as well to maintain very very similar tensions. Also I supposed you could use a paint for metals and paint a line around the screw where the screw is flush with the top of the core piece to mark how far it is screwed in, although it will likely wear away with time.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Typically, as long as the tensions are reasonably close most people won’t notice much difference. However, there are 2 ways to circumvent this problem, which you can also combine if you are super adamant about maintaining exact tensions. Assume you have a cube with the exact same tensions on every side you wish to disassemble and relube the core, then reassemble in the exact configuration. What you can do is only remove one side and center, set up the hardware, then reinstall that sides center pieces and adjust it until it matches the other 5 pieces. Repeat. You can also use a set of calipers and measure the distance between the core and the center when you pull the center pieces all the way out to the screw head. You can combine these two methods as well to maintain very very similar tensions. Also I supposed you could use a paint for metals and paint a line around the screw where the screw is flush with the top of the core piece to mark how far it is screwed in, although it will likely wear away with time.

Good advice but distances may not be so accurate for strength of springs, e.g. the measurement between the core and centre, etc. Also, springs are not identical. I suppose we can measure their strength with some instrument to select or balance them.

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

Good advice but distances may not be so accurate for strength of springs, e.g. the measurement between the core and centre, etc. Also, springs are not identical. I suppose we can measure their strength with some instrument to select or balance them.

Hooke’s law tells us the compressive force in the spring, equal and opposite to the clamping force of the caps on the edges, is proportional to distance.
F=kX where x is the distance traveled from the neutral position and k is the spring constant.

To your point all the springs have some variance (k) and taking measurements(x) has uncertainty. Similar to torque wrenches in automotive assembly I think a torque screw driver is a good option for this issue as well. The torque/tension relationship has many variables also though and is far from exact.

it’s a very interesting theoretical issue…But most of us can’t tell the difference between all these small differences in settings and I personally think the old fashioned simple screw is still a great tensioning system…as you stated there are many variables that affect the ability to duplicate exact settings multiple times. I think we have the illusion of control with all these modern systems. They’re useful, maybe not as purposeful and precise as as we think though.

 

[qwr]

The Moyu dual adjustment system since the GTS3 has come with a tensioning tool that no one uses. You're supposed to put it between the center and edges, tighten as much as possible, then loosen from there. I think if you tried to tighten every side without the tool as much as possible, the cube would bulge and not be even.

What I do is I try to get the screws visually close in thread depth when assembling then tighten from there. But like @OreKehStrah said, having the tensions exactly equal doesn't matter for most cubes and cubers.

 

[Dan the Beginner]

Hooke’s law tells us the compressive force in the spring, equal and opposite to the clamping force of the caps on the edges, is proportional to distance.

Thanks for clarifying this. Hooke is of course correct. What I meant and should have said is that distance measurements (of how deep the screw has gone into the axle) may be difficult to measure and it's therefore hard to determine accurately the base spring strength at the start before subsequent screw adjustments. That could then make adjustments inaccurate and settings hard to repeat. The point I try to make is about this calibration and why the Tornado V2 with its rivet has some merit.

 

[Zain_A24]

The MoYu smartcube will be announced today. Being the newest, I hope it has learnt from the mistakes in earlier ones. It's apparently built with a Weilong like body.

Video link

We will likely have an unboxing coming out today.
Very interesting product. Definitely a very high-performance cube.

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

distance measurements (of how deep the screw has gone into the axle) may be difficult to measure and it's therefore hard to determine accurately the base spring strength at the start before subsequent screw adjustments. That could then make adjustments inaccurate and settings hard to repeat. The point I try to make is about this calibration and why the Tornado V2 with its rivet has some merit.

agreed!

 

[Sub1Hour]

We will likely have an unboxing coming out today.
Very interesting product. Definitely a very high-performance cube.

SCR’s review thumbnail makes it seem like the pieces look identical to a GTS3, how similar are the pieces of the smart cube to the wrm/gts?

 

[SH03L4C3]