Speedsolving Beginner - I've done research but still have a few questions

[dskids]

Hey all, I've been using the wiki here for some time but this is my first post on the forum. Please bear with me, it might be a long one.

Many years ago I learned a form of beginner method which took this progression: white cross - first layer corners - middle layer edges - position LL corners - orient LL corners - position LL edges - orient LL edges. Obviously horribly inefficient, and I learned all this with white on top, so nothing was really fingertrickable. Because of this background I want to learn CFOP with intuitive F2L as a speedsolving method. Right now I am retraining myself to hold the cube with yellow on top as I work through F2L. It is a slow process but I am enjoying the cube becoming a puzzle again.

With all that said, I have done a lot of research on CFOP but I still had a few questions I was hoping the community here could answer:

- Assuming I want to do a white cross, is it recommended to solve the cross on the bottom of the cube (i.e. yellow on top the whole time)?

- I am starting fresh with OLL algs so I was wondering if there are a few "main" algs that I could start off with? Are there say a set of 2 or 3 that could solve any OLL case if you just ran them in sequence? Obviously this would majorly sacrifice efficiency early on, but would allow me to continue the solving process without having to commit to a large set of algs early.

- Same question as above, but for PLL? Are there any "main" PLL algs that could get you to solution if you just ran them multiple times or back to back? I've noticed from watching youtube cubers that the T-perm gets mentioned a lot. I've got that one down, so if there are a couple other to supplement it, I'd love to know. Obviously I'd expand my repertoire over time to take advantage of more cases and improve efficiency.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advice.

Drew

 

[shadowslice e]

Hey all, I've been using the wiki here for some time but this is my first post on the forum. Please bear with me, it might be a long one.

Many years ago I learned a form of beginner method which took this progression: white cross - first layer corners - middle layer edges - position LL corners - orient LL corners - position LL edges - orient LL edges. Obviously horribly inefficient, and I learned all this with white on top, so nothing was really fingertrickable. Because of this background I want to learn CFOP with intuitive F2L as a speedsolving method.

Nothing much to say here but have you tried any other methods such as Roux/ZZ etc? You may find them more to your taste

Right now I am retraining myself to hold the cube with yellow on top as I work through F2L.

Don't. Just solve with any side as the cross. It may be harder in the short run but will help you progress in the long run.

With all that said, I have done a lot of research on CFOP but I still had a few questions I was hoping the community here could answer:

- Assuming I want to do a white cross, is it recommended to solve the cross on the bottom of the cube (i.e. yellow on top the whole time)?

Yes, solve the cross on D as much as you can. Try to be at least white/yellow neutral though (you can do white or yellow cross- although full CN is better- see above)

- I am starting fresh with OLL algs so I was wondering if there are a few "main" algs that I could start off with? Are there say a set of 2 or 3 that could solve any OLL case if you just ran them in sequence? Obviously this would majorly sacrifice efficiency early on, but would allow me to continue the solving process without having to commit to a large set of algs early.

Search for 4LLL. They contain the basics for CFOP solving. Essentially you go oriented edges /oriented corners/ permuted corners/permuted edges.

For the OLL you will need fruruf and frurururuf for the edges and sune/pi/headlights/blinkers/L/double sune for the corners

- Same question as above, but for PLL? Are there any "main" PLL algs that could get you to solution if you just ran them multiple times or back to back? I've noticed from watching youtube cubers that the T-perm gets mentioned a lot. I've got that one down, so if there are a couple other to supplement it, I'd love to know. Obviously I'd expand my repertoire over time to take advantage of more cases and improve efficiency.

Following from above, you need to permute corners then edges. For basic you will need J and Y perms for corners and H, Z and U for edges.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advice.

Drew

No problem! Just be sure to check out some other methods before you dedicate yourself to CFOP

 

[Kudz]

F2L intuitive->2 look OLL->PLL->OLL->not this thread XD
Ifu are new I strongly avice you to start doing colour neutral (CN) solves. Firstly, it might be hard, but trust me it is really worth it.
Do cross on D, you can try cross on L too. It is not best idea tho. It might be good to do cross on F->L->D.
All other questions were answered above, I believe =) Try other methods too, I personally think, that I could much better with Roux, but now I am to lazy to switch .
Happy cubing!

 

[dskids]

shadowslice, Kudz, excellent. Both very helpful posts.

So, as for my questions about limiting OLL and PLL algs early, the answer would be a 4LLL (i.e. 2 look OLL / 2 look PLL, right?). That's not exactly what I was hoping for, but if I start easy with the simple (non-preserving) EOLL, it shouldn't be too bad.

Both of you mentioned Roux. I looked into Roux early, and was really interested. While an alternative method is intriguing since I'm just starting with speedsolving, the idea of building blocks and filling in edges is so foreign to me. The LBL approach is ingrained in my brain at this point and F2L just seems like a refinement of what I already know.

Both of you also mentioned practicing color neutrality. I have no problem with that, and I have experimented with it in the past. My main question here is for shadowslice: regardless of color, do I want to keep cross on D while solving F2L, or should I be able to solve F2L independent of cube orientation as well?

Thanks again!

 

[Goosly]

You can solve OLL with only 2 algs (as you already mentioned yourself, this would not be efficient, so add more later): F R U R' F' U' and R U R' U R U2 R'
Same for PLL: l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and F2 U (R' L) F2 (R L') U F2

Always keep cross on bottom. This allows for better look ahead.
There are a few cubers who solve cross on left and keep it there during F2L, but they need to rotate before OLL, which is not great.

 

[dskids]

You can solve OLL with only 2 algs (as you already mentioned yourself, this would not be efficient, so add more later): F R U R' F' U' and R U R' U R U2 R'
Same for PLL: l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 and F2 U (R' L) F2 (R L') U F2

Always keep cross on bottom. This allows for better look ahead.
There are a few cubers who solve cross on left and keep it there during F2L, but they need to rotate before OLL, which is not great.

Awesome, this is EXACTLY the info I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[AlphaSheep]

You mentioned that you already know thd T perm? In that case you can use that instead of the l' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 mentioned above. It has the same effect on the corners.

 

[KenBrace]

Hey all, I've been using the wiki here for some time but this is my first post on the forum. Please bear with me, it might be a long one.

Many years ago I learned a form of beginner method which took this progression: white cross - first layer corners - middle layer edges - position LL corners - orient LL corners - position LL edges - orient LL edges. Obviously horribly inefficient, and I learned all this with white on top, so nothing was really fingertrickable. Because of this background I want to learn CFOP with intuitive F2L as a speedsolving method. Right now I am retraining myself to hold the cube with yellow on top as I work through F2L. It is a slow process but I am enjoying the cube becoming a puzzle again.

Congratulations!

- Assuming I want to do a white cross, is it recommended to solve the cross on the bottom of the cube (i.e. yellow on top the whole time)?

You can do whatever you want during the inspection but it's recommended that you do the actual solving with the yellow side facing up. That way you can go immediately into F2L after the cross is finished.

It may feel awkward at first but it won't take long for you to used to it.

- I am starting fresh with OLL algs so I was wondering if there are a few "main" algs that I could start off with? Are there say a set of 2 or 3 that could solve any OLL case if you just ran them in sequence? Obviously this would majorly sacrifice efficiency early on, but would allow me to continue the solving process without having to commit to a large set of algs early.

I recommend two-step OLL.

Solve the yellow cross first.

Then do your OLL.

Solving the cross narrows it down to only 8 OLLs as opposed to 52. Eventually you will want to learn all 52 but start with those first 8. You can view them under the "All Edges Flipped Correctly" section here... http://cubewhiz.com/oll.php

- Same question as above, but for PLL? Are there any "main" PLL algs that could get you to solution if you just ran them multiple times or back to back? I've noticed from watching youtube cubers that the T-perm gets mentioned a lot. I've got that one down, so if there are a couple other to supplement it, I'd love to know. Obviously I'd expand my repertoire over time to take advantage of more cases and improve efficiency.

If I were you then I'd just go ahead and learn all 21 PLLs. It won't take long if you just buckle down and practice daily. Here's a link to the PLL algs... http://cubewhiz.com/pll.php

If you have trouble with the G-Perms then just remember that you can solve those algorithms in two steps (A-Perm, then U-Perm).


Anyway, hope that helps!

The best of luck!

 

[cmhardw]

Once you have 4LLL down pretty well, learn the four G perms as soon as you can for PLL. Together these four cases account for 2/9 (22.22%) of all PLL cases. No other PLL case accounts for a larger fraction of the total PLL cases. This will give you a big boost toward 1 look PLL early on.

 

[Kudz]

shadowslice, Kudz, excellent. Both very helpful posts.

So, as for my questions about limiting OLL and PLL algs early, the answer would be a 4LLL (i.e. 2 look OLL / 2 look PLL, right?). That's not exactly what I was hoping for, but if I start easy with the simple (non-preserving) EOLL, it shouldn't be too bad.

Both of you mentioned Roux. I looked into Roux early, and was really interested. While an alternative method is intriguing since I'm just starting with speedsolving, the idea of building blocks and filling in edges is so foreign to me. The LBL approach is ingrained in my brain at this point and F2L just seems like a refinement of what I already know.

Both of you also mentioned practicing color neutrality. I have no problem with that, and I have experimented with it in the past. My main question here is for shadowslice: regardless of color, do I want to keep cross on D while solving F2L, or should I be able to solve F2L independent of cube orientation as well?

Thanks again!

CN Roux is different, it is axis CN. Roux is harder than CFOP. I use CFOP. You want to solve F2L with cross on D. Only case you rotate in F2L is OH solving.

One tip: more algs you drill=better.
It is so much easier to be sub 20 with full CFOP than with 4LLL. Ofc you don't need to learn it in one day, but more algs you learn, it is going to be easier to learn even more. So maybe 1 PLL evry 2 days? After that 1 OLL every day? Lots of ppl should disagree, but more advanced you are now, it will take less time too master it in future.

Brb

 

[dskids]

So, based on feedback here I did some more research and 4LLL seems like a no-brainer for starting point.

The three basic EOLL moves seem pretty easy to learn so I'll knock that out first. As far as 2 look PLL is concerned, I already know T-perm. Going to learn Y-perm for diagonal corners, then U-perm as it seems to be one of the most useful edge permutations.

Then I'm thinking I'll start H and Z-perms and the seven OCLL cases? I think all that would get me to a 4LLL.

 

[Kudz]

So, based on feedback here I did some more research and 4LLL seems like a no-brainer for starting point.

The three basic EOLL moves seem pretty easy to learn so I'll knock that out first. As far as 2 look PLL is concerned, I already know T-perm. Going to learn Y-perm for diagonal corners, then U-perm as it seems to be one of the most useful edge permutations.

Then I'm thinking I'll start H and Z-perms and the seven OCLL cases? I think all that would get me to a 4LLL.

U perm can solve every EPLL. I would sugest learning them like this U perm->H perm->Z perm->7 OLLs for Eo done, then full PLL =)

 

[dskids]

Welp, after making this thread I made a sheet with all the algs I need to learn and making some great progress. Got all the 2-look PLL's down now (T, Y, U, H, Z) just trying to decide whether to stick with an RU alg for the U perm or look into an M-slice alg. Also got the first OLL look sorted out, although I want to learn one more alg to make it more efficient. Now just gonna drill the crap out of these algs and start learning the OCLL cases. Thanks again for the all the advice, it has helped tremendously.