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Skyler Variation (SV)

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CubicNL

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The idea of putting in a pair regardless of the orientation of the corner and edge was also used some time ago here : Seth , may be interesting for you.
I guess from what I read here that this isn't very useful to learn: it saves only a couple of moves, the SV algs are probably not that fast to execute, you will have to get used to a new system for just little (if any) improvement.

I guess this is only useful, like Cubenovice already pointed out earlier, for a couple of nice cases.
 

jskyler91

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can you stop posting off topic stuff please
So if no one has any real concerns here or reasons they see why I shouldn't do this that haven't already been discussed and clarified I think I will start the chore of learning these algs now. Well I might regenerate the EUD cases unless Robert or someone else has done this for me already ? :)
 

Bob

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Why would it not be SKyler Variation? People call Rowe Variaition Rowe Variation and Rowe Variation contains lots of mutliple subsets like Winter variation. You could call the subset OLS- FE, but I already posted it before him so I would be the one to name it not him and i just called it a part of Skyler Variation.
Also, it is the norm to name things you discovered and presented on first after yourself. Just as Gomil said, we normally call CFOP the Fridrich method and no one is really erked about that, at least that I know of.
That's not true at all. A TON of people are irked about that.
 

jskyler91

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The idea of putting in a pair regardless of the orientation of the corner and edge was also used some time ago here : Seth , may be interesting for you.
I guess from what I read here that this isn't very useful to learn: it saves only a couple of moves, the SV algs are probably not that fast to execute, you will have to get used to a new system for just little (if any) improvement.

I guess this is only useful, like Cubenovice already pointed out earlier, for a couple of nice cases.
I think you missed my post to David woner earlier, here is the important part which I will be putting in the OP:
"Also, I think most of these algs could be sub 1ed with practice,and even if you couldn't you would still be saving time. Lets say your regular OLL case would be .9 seconds long, but you had to do one of the 5 horrible f2l cases at first and then it or just one of the other horrible cases which you save time on by inserting it. This would be a 1.5 second f2l case and then a .9 second OLL. That makes for a 2.4 second LS+OLL, now if you just did SV then you would only have to do the horrible case for f2l which would be about 1.5 second. This still saves you .9 seconds. Seeing as how most of my OLL aren't always sub 1 then you will save over a second by using this method assuming your recog is good enough. Now Recog is a different story, only time will tell if I can actually make it up to speed, but I am confident that I can."

.9 seconds is huge when you are averaging sub 10
 

CubicNL

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I think you missed my post to David woner earlier, here is the important part which I will be putting in the OP:
"Also, I think most of these algs could be sub 1ed with practice,and even if you couldn't you would still be saving time. Lets say your regular OLL case would be .9 seconds long, but you had to do one of the 5 horrible f2l cases at first and then it or just one of the other horrible cases which you save time on by inserting it. This would be a 1.5 second f2l case and then a .9 second OLL. That makes for a 2.4 second LS+OLL, now if you just did SV then you would only have to do the horrible case for f2l which would be about 1.5 second. This still saves you .9 seconds. Seeing as how most of my OLL aren't always sub 1 then you will save over a second by using this method assuming your recog is good enough. Now Recog is a different story, only time will tell if I can actually make it up to speed, but I am confident that I can."

.9 seconds is huge when you are averaging sub 10
But now you're basically saying that you should do SV because you might get one of the horrible cases.
That's not worth learning 180 cases, sorry.
 

jskyler91

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But now you're basically saying that you should do SV because you might get one of the horrible cases.
That's not worth learning 180 cases, sorry.
You think a horrible OLL case is where you do it in .9 second?!!! You must rock at them then, because I do most of my OLL at around 1 second on average. I think of the .9 OLL as the better case. The horrible case I am referring to is the f2l case which happens fairly often. PLease reread my op with the underlined section because i gave a better explanation of it there, but even if you setup those case with an RUR' (which is like .3 seconds max, more like .2) you will still save .7 or .6 seconds, this is a huge deal if you are like sub 10. Also, if you are even .5 seconds faster on average simply due to method that is worth it to me.
 

jskyler91

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Like many people have pointed out before, these are just numbers being pulled out that -you- think are reasonable. Estimates are good for feasibility checks to further pursue some idea, but not for convincing people that this is a superior idea on a technical level.
Agreed, but before I tell people they should go try it I want to make sure my reasoning is well reasonable. I wouldn't want to recommend this to people if it sucked.
 

A Leman

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I have not checked the whole thread comments, but have you heard or read of SV( summer variation:the RUR' version of WV). Also, you stongly opposed learning large sets of algs so you could optimize the tps of the algs you know. Have you changed your mind? I personally like the challenge of making my f2l better intuitively before learning f2l algs that require thinking during f2l. The rotation for the unoriented slot is also a big downside for me so i don't think i will learn these.

Also, your last example scramble had a nice 10 move double adjacent X cross in it, so finding things like that seem better than learning 180 algs for some odd f2l cases which you can usually avoid and i have no intention of forcing.

I just noticed this is a bit harsh but its simply my opinion which is human and imperfect,maybe this has more potential than I realize.
 

CubicNL

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You think a horrible OLL case is where you do it in .9 second?!!! You must rock at them then, because I do most of my OLL at around 1 second on average. I think of the .9 OLL as the better case. The horrible case I am referring to is the f2l case which happens fairly often. PLease reread my op with the underlined section because i gave a better explanation of it there, but even if you setup those case with an RUR' (which is like .3 seconds max, more like .2) you will still save .7 or .6 seconds, this is a huge deal if you are like sub 10. Also, if you are even .5 seconds faster on average simply due to method that is worth it to me.
I know you were talking about a horrible f2l case. I forgot to mention that there are other ways to deal with a horrible case than just SV.
 

jskyler91

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I have not checked the whole thread comments, but have you heard or read of SV( summer variation:the RUR' version of WV). Also, you stongly opposed learning large sets of algs so you could optimize the tps of the algs you know. Have you changed your mind? I personally like the challenge of making my f2l better intuitively before learning f2l algs that require thinking during f2l. The rotation for the unoriented slot is also a big downside for me so i don't think i will learn these.

Also, your last example scramble had a nice 10 move double adjacent X cross in it, so finding things like that seem better than learning 180 algs for some odd f2l cases which you can usually avoid and i have no intention of forcing.

I just noticed this is a bit harsh but its simply my opinion which is human and imperfect,maybe this has more potential than I realize.
Don't worry man, I understood what you meant. If you remember, you may not have seen it, I made a thread asking the forum what they thought i should do next. i did this because I wanted to make sure that I learned all that I needed to learn in terms of algs before I increased tps. If i did this, it would probably be all of the algs I needed to learn really save maybe a few more OLL skip cases which are easy to recog. Experience has taught me that TPS will come with time and practice. After I learn SV I will probably spend a great deal of time on x-crosses and other stuff like that that comes from simple practice. I want to get down my solving method and the algs I will use before I do this though so I can practice them a bunch until they are great. Things like x-cross just come wit practice and don't really require major algs sets or anything.

I know you were talking about a horrible f2l case. I forgot to mention that there are other ways to deal with a horrible case than just SV.
True, very true, but this seems like a really good way IMO
Calling this a method is like picking 10 random ZBLL cases and calling that a method.
The method part here is not the algs or even the alg set, it is the way in which I plan on using them and the versatility it offers me. But you are right, this is NOT a full new way of solving, it is just a new last slot method.
 
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jskyler91

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not really, it's a list of random cases. there are LS cases that you cannot apply SV to.
Agreed, but SV is specifically a method in which you utilize a series of move saving techniques and algs to permute the in place last slot pair and the OLL at the same time. This is most definitely A last slot method. It is not the only, but it is a method especially considering the other things besides the algs you use to set things up. This is just like MGLS, MGLS is basically just CLS, but what makes it a method is the fact that it is ELS plus CLS for a new last slot method. Similarly SV is basically the OLS cases, but what makes it a method is the improper solving or sky pairs one can use and the methods for edge control and preservation of formed sky pairs during Cross and such. It changes the way you look at and execute F2L just as MGLS does.

That's exactly where our opinions differ, because I'd rather use other pair insertions and learn some other algs than learning this.
What specifically are you talking about when you say other pairs and other algs?
Is this just pair choice? Because i agree this is important and i will work on this later, but if you can make a bad pair a good thing with little effort then why wouldn't you?
 
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A Leman

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After I learn SV I will probably spend a great deal of time on x-crosses and other stuff like that that comes from simple practice
Please come up with another abbreviation in courtesy for the people that learned SV (summer variation). It did come first. You could try skyV or something.
 
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