Should stickerless cubes be allowed in WCA competition?

[Joël]

writing your opinion is pointless unless you exxplain why you feel that way. Why should they not be allowed?

Because you can see more than on an original Rubik's cube.

I wouldn't mind if they were allowed at some point in the future, it's not a big deal for me, but I kinda like the idea that the allowed cubes are as similar as possible to the original cube.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

I think one of the Gans cubes and maybe a C4U one, but nothing actually good.

I was curious about all the comments that say it doesn't actually give an advantage. I know I'm a slow cuber and I also do slow turning during the F2L, so I'm not going to break any WR's, but I just tried looking at the RB and LB edges while doing F2L and I could clearly see a flash of colour that was enough for me to know what piece it was. It was a little strange cause I wouldn't normally look there, but with a bit of practice I bet I could get quite good at knowing what pieces are there. Now if it turns out that fast people are also able to do that, and practice to take advantage of it... then everyone will feel compelled to use Colourless cubes, and be practicing back face edge recognition to feel like they're able to compete fairly.
It just doesn't feel right to me.

This is exactly the reason for not including them. I think that this could actually be used by fast cubers, and thereforse shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Pyjam]

Now if it turns out that fast people are also able to do that, and practice to take advantage of it... then everyone will feel compelled to use Colourless cubes, and be practicing back face edge recognition to feel like they're able to compete fairly.
It just doesn't feel right to me.

Is there any fundamental difference with other forms of look-ahead training?

I kinda like the idea that the allowed cubes are as similar as possible to the original cube.

In my opinion, they're not. Corner cutting has dramatically changed everything.

 

[Escher]

Is there any fundamental difference with other forms of look-ahead training?

Normal cube
- See RB/LB sticker, know what BR/BL is through logic based on other stickers you have seen

Stickerless cube
- See RB/LB piece, know what BR/BL piece is by indirectly looking at it.

I don't own one of these, but if I'm right a BLD cuber could easily memorise while not looking at the B side.

 

[Godmil]

I don't own one of these, but if I'm right a BLD cuber could easily memorise while not looking at the B side.

I don't think it's such a big deal for BLD, the main advantage is for when you're doing U turns you can see flashes of colour for the back face.
I'm sure there is an issue with BLD, but I can't for the life of me remember what it is at the moment.

 

[cubernya]

are there any stickless cube that are legal to use and don't have the colours on the egde?
still there are very few tpyes stickerless cube so I think that there nothing wrong about dayanstickerless being illeagal

No they are not legal. "Puzzles must either have coloured stickers, coloured tiles, textures or painted colours."

 

[Dene]

Because there is an advantage, that I'm sure you are aware of. May not be a big one but nevertheless its an advantage, period. Personally I think this should not be such a big issue, I have no idea why people are having problems with white or black dayan cubes.

The problem is that nubs buy the stickerless version of the cube as their first cube because they think it's cool (and don't have any others).

In my opinion, they're not. Corner cutting has dramatically changed everything.

Stickerless cubes modify the functions of the original Rubik's Cube, by allowing you to see things that you ordinarily can't. Cutting corners does not modify the function of the cube, just the ability to use it.

EDIT: I realise that my use of "function" could be interpreted differently, and I can't think of the word that I want here, so please interpret me in the sense that I mean and don't be a nubcake and misinterpret me for the sake of a pointless argument.

 

[Pyjam]

No sticker does not modify the function of the cube either, just the ability to use it.

Sorry but it's not pointless argument. I think you have a narrowed point of view, no offense. I try to enlarge it.

When Mr Rubik designed the cube he hasn't speedcubing in mind. The back of cube is not a “hidden part“. You may turn the cube if you need to see the back. If Mr Rubik had designed a puzzle with pieces moving inside and outside of the cube then then inner pieces would have been hidden by design, and a translucent cube would change the nature of the puzzle.

This is not the case with stickerless cubes.

At the time Mr Rubik designed the cube, he has to deal with technical and economical limitations, and so he chose to put stickers on the cubies. Today he could make a different choice like a stickerless cube, but the goal would stay the same.

In every sport, the equipments evolve. This debate remind me the time when the big rackets started to be used in Tennis.

 

[Dene]

No sticker does not modify the function of the cube either, just the ability to use it.

Sorry but it's not pointless argument. I think you have a narrowed point of view, no offense. I try to enlarge it.

Just want to point out:

I always thought the issue is that the cube then becomes something different from the original, intended use of the puzzle. I don't know whether or not this is particularly a large issue, but I don't really see a problem with stickerless cubes at this stage.

 

[cubelover111]

I dont have any problem with them being allowed or not but the people here should know how strong our unconscious mind is, even a slight glance (even for a micro second) can be imprinted on your mind don't believe me watch this Go to 5:24

 

[Cubenovice]

I dont have any problem with them being allowed or not but the people here should know how strong our unconscious mind is, even a slight glance (even for a micro second) can be imprinted on your mind don't believe me watch this Go to 5:24

I counter with http://youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo

 

[CubeRoots]

What about mini cubes, are they allowed? i can see F R U and L all at once on a smaller cube.

 

[Godmil]

What about mini cubes, are they allowed? i can see F R U and L all at once on a smaller cube.

Yes they are allowed. If you feel that you'll be faster with a mini-cube go right ahead

 

[CubeRoots]

Yes they are allowed. If you feel that you'll be faster with a mini-cube go right ahead

it's not that i like minicubes or want to use one. I'm just pointing out that other cubes which are allowed in competitions have this same, supposedly unfair, advantage of being able to determine what a piece is quicker

 

[Godmil]

it's not that i like minicubes or want to use one. I'm just pointing out that other cubes which are allowed in competitions have this same, supposedly unfair, advantage of being able to determine what a piece is quicker

Yeah, but having a cube that is narrower than the space between your eyes isn't necessarily an advantage. Being able to see the back face edge pieces on a good cube without moving your head or rotating the cube is.

 

[DrKorbin]

Being able to see the back face edge pieces on a good cube without moving your head or rotating the cube is [an advantage].

Being able to rotate one face without finishing a rotation of another is.

Stickerless cubes modify the functions of the original Rubik's Cube, by allowing you to see things that you ordinarily can't. Cutting corners does not modify the function of the cube, just the ability to use it.

EDIT: I realise that my use of "function" could be interpreted differently, and I can't think of the word that I want here, so please interpret me in the sense that I mean and don't be a nubcake and misinterpret me for the sake of a pointless argument.

I don't get your meaning of "function". In my meaning both cutting corners and stickerless cubes do not modify the "function" of the cube, just the ability to use it.

 

[cubelover111]

I counter with http://youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo

Spotting that gorilla was not tough and while solving a cube it's not that you are only paying attention to a specific colour you are constantly looking for different things and also you don't have constantly look at the cube (at least its not the case for advanced cuber) so they could definitely take advantage of the Back face being slightly cisible.

 

[Dene]

I counter with http://youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo

:fp completely unrelated.

I don't get your meaning of "function". In my meaning both cutting corners and stickerless cubes do not modify the "function" of the cube, just the ability to use it.

Well, for example, the original functions of the cube were to have a colour on each face, to be solved by turning layers and aligning pieces that go next to each other etc. On the original cube it was not possible to see colours by looking between the layers when a slice is turning; you had to rotate the cube to get a look at the sticker on the outside. Now whether or not this would have been the case had Erno thought of the idea of a stickerless cube right at the start, it's hard to say, but probably not (i.e. he probably would not have objected to a stickerless cube), which is why I don't really object to them.

 

[Stefan]

Could you put my mind at ease and show me that the tiles are less than 1.5 mm thick?

The visible part of the deluxe cube tiles is about 1mm thick. The game cube tiles could count as "thicker" because of their deep holes. And both cubes' tiles actually are thicker than 1.5mm if you count their invisible parts under the surface.

 

[Applejuice]

I don't really see how they can't allow this. If it gives an advantage over stickers it should be allowed.
What if we were to say that only Rubik's brand was allowed, because speedcubes have an advantage over them?

I don't see what's wrong with them anyway.