Roux, fridrich, or zz

[ElectricDoodie]

Now I've read this thread I think a little less of this community. Depressing.

I agree. Seriously anyone can be fast with any method. You just need to work at it.

really? the fact that i wanted to discuss this made you lose faith in the community? what's wrong with talking about it, even if you think i'm completely wrong? for the most part while i've been here, i haven't been rude to anyone, i've simply asserted my view of things. this is a forum, isn't it? despite kirjava's constant belittling of me, i am reading what he has to say and trying to respond to it.

my point was several things. first, i honestly don't feel like there's anything wrong with claiming cfop is the fastest method. i felt way this much stronger at the beginning of this discussion but i still think there isn't anything wrong with this statement. this is the point that has mostly been argued and that kirjava is most angry about.

another point was that it is somewhat ridiculous to say that all the methods are "equal". sure, they are all fast, that is pretty obvious, i've seen sub-10 averages from BigGreen for a while now. however, it is highly unlikely that they are "equal", especially the way kirjava was going about arguing it. different methods will have different optimal speeds and it's simply unlikely that three randomly chosen methods - zz, cfop, and roux are going to be equal in speed.

at no point did i say you can't be fast with roux, or zz, or you can't be faster than cfop with roux or zz.

Actually the thread title and OP question (i.e. which do you think is best?) is perfectly reasonable.

I was more just disappointed with the quality of posts and the number of ridiculous statements with nothing to back them up. Kirjava, Cride and qq were the only ones with clear points and arguments. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, btw.

This argument is based on both quantifiable and completely unquantifiable elements (and I'm not even including personal preference). You can make as many points as you like comparing the several main methods there are with average move counts between 35-55 and list as many dis/advantages as you want. You are still never going to solve the problem.

It makes sense to compare these method steps and overall features in order to better understand each in the context of others, but it makes little sense to claim any is categorically better than another.

Well, you see, the problem is that that was not the original post.

The OP was "Which one is best."

After everyone started saying that he was starting a flame war, and after the flame war had already started, he decided to go back, and change it to "think."

So, the problem is that the OP made an error in starting the thread, asking people which one is best, as if it were a fact. Now, he's changed it to an opinion, which is OK. But, all these posts and rants started before the OP edited his post, to make it an opinion, and not a fact of which one is "best."

 

[waffle=ijm]

it's entirely possible i'm being biased.

This one made me giggle.

Anywho it's pretty clear that a lot of us do read your post. Kirjava obviously reads all your post if he pretty much quotes each on of your sentences. Personally, I'm liking the discussions.

EDIT - thanks to post above for clearing up the original question.

 

[incessantcheese]

it's entirely possible i'm being biased.

This one made me giggle.

Anywho it's pretty clear that a lot of us do read your post. Kirjava obviously reads all your post if he pretty much quotes each on of your sentences. Personally, I'm liking the discussions.

a lot of you do read the posts, i agree, but some people step in for one or two sentences and leave, i think you know what i mean.

i like discussions, too, but if i'm making people lose faith in the community, i think it's better if i stop :<

 

[Kirjava]

and to kirjava, yes, you're not waffle, but we were arguing over waffle's words.

I never once commented on the imaginary 'faz' waffle was talking about.

 

[Escher]

I was more just disappointed with the quality of posts and the number of ridiculous statements with nothing to back them up.

okay, well, if this is the case and most people feel this way, i'm going to step out of the thread.

Oh gosh don't take it personally.

It's not like you are the worst (if most prominent) at all, and it's not you that's made me lose any faith in the community. It was supposed to be a comment on general attitudes and behaviours of others.

Discussions like this do have utility in that they are a good tool for everyone to learn from, don't feel like you want to stop cubing because of one little thread.

After threads like this people quickly learn that it's a bad idea to make general statements, badly worded arguments or use undefined concepts as evidence.

 

[jms_gears1]

Since when did choosing a method to use make you cool, or unique?
as far as unique goes everyones unique (lol oxymoron) no one solves the same, even if they do use the same method.

and why exactly do you think that Friedrice is better than Roux or ZZ or petrus (oh there it is again)?

Fixed it for you. And he NEVER ever said that Fridrich is better than ZZ or Roux or...that other one that has a funny name. Don't you like EO after HALF of F2L in it? Weird.

Fridrich for sure. It is mainstream.

It's like Microsoft, Mac or Linux OS. Most of the time you choose Microsoft. If you want to be cool a bit, go ZZ (Mac). If you want to be unique, try Roux (Linux). But most of the time, just Microsoft.

Since when did choosing a method to use make you cool, or unique?
as far as unique goes everyones unique (lol oxymoron) no one solves the same, even if they do use the same method.

and why exactly do you think that Fridrice is better than Roux or ZZ or petrus (oh there it is again)?

When did he say Fridrich was better than Roux or ZZ or Petrus?
Oh, right, he didn't.

yes he did?

The original post asked which method was better, and then the topic changed to which one do you think is better. How is the statement:

Fridrich for sure.

Not saying Fridrich is better, when its obviously an answer to the OP's question?



EDIT-Cride thats just insane :Q

 

[Anonymous]

Can we maybe start over in a new thread? People keep saying that this discussion has potential, but with all the kind of pointless side-arguments already going on, I don't think that it's possible for this to be useful...

 

[CharlesOBlack]

Let's follow Waffo's statement about the three faz's - for simplicity's sake, I'll call them Faz, Raz and Zaz.

Faz does CFOP. OLL and PLL uses up a lot of moves, but it's all compensated by fingertrick-friendliness - RUF algs or RUL, whichever is best for him.

Raz follow's Roux's words accurately, that is, he only has about 4 different blocks to choose from when starting a solve. This means he knows what pieces he is looking for, and can thus find them faster. Movecount lower than Faz, but the fingertrick-friendliness is still there with M and U (except for M. Everybody I know hates that move)

Zaz does ZZ-b, which is phasing + 1lll. RUL F2L make him extremely fast at that, but recog for LL and executing the appropriate alg slow him down a bit (imagine executing an alg full of Bs and stuff. Hard. You could also pick the longer, but more fingertrick-friendly alg, but that would be about the same amount of time.)

Thus, Faz has a high movecount, Zaz has a lower movecount, but slows down during LL, and Raz ends up with <M, U> LSE.

Now, if you like wasting moves, as long as you get it done, you belong with Faz. If you like sparing moves, you follow Zaz's words, and if you just like having fun, Raz is the man.

My $0.02.

 

[y3k9]

Now I've read this thread I think a little less of this community. Depressing.

I agree. Seriously anyone can be fast with any method. You just need to work at it.

really? the fact that i wanted to discuss this made you lose faith in the community? what's wrong with talking about it, even if you think i'm completely wrong? for the most part while i've been here, i haven't been rude to anyone, i've simply asserted my view of things. this is a forum, isn't it? despite kirjava's constant belittling of me, i am reading what he has to say and trying to respond to it.

my point was several things. first, i honestly don't feel like there's anything wrong with claiming cfop is the fastest method. i felt way this much stronger at the beginning of this discussion but i still think there isn't anything wrong with this statement. this is the point that has mostly been argued and that kirjava is most angry about.

another point was that it is somewhat ridiculous to say that all the methods are "equal". sure, they are all fast, that is pretty obvious, i've seen sub-10 averages from BigGreen for a while now. however, it is highly unlikely that they are "equal", especially the way kirjava was going about arguing it. different methods will have different optimal speeds and it's simply unlikely that three randomly chosen methods - zz, cfop, and roux are going to be equal in speed.

at no point did i say you can't be fast with roux, or zz, or you can't be faster than cfop with roux or zz.

Actually the thread title and OP question (i.e. which do you think is best?) is perfectly reasonable.

I was more just disappointed with the quality of posts and the number of ridiculous statements with nothing to back them up. Kirjava, Cride and qq were the only ones with clear points and arguments. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, btw.

This argument is based on both quantifiable and completely unquantifiable elements (and I'm not even including personal preference). You can make as many points as you like comparing the several main methods there are with average move counts between 35-55 and list as many dis/advantages as you want. You are still never going to solve the problem.

It makes sense to compare these method steps and overall features in order to better understand each in the context of others, but it makes little sense to claim any is categorically better than another.

Well, you see, the problem is that that was not the original post.

The OP was "Which one is best."

After everyone started saying that he was starting a flame war, and after the flame war had already started, he decided to go back, and change it to "think."

So, the problem is that the OP made an error in starting the thread, asking people which one is best, as if it were a fact. Now, he's changed it to an opinion, which is OK. But, all these posts and rants started before the OP edited his post, to make it an opinion, and not a fact of which one is "best."

WTF, it was one do you THINK is best from the beginning, kid.

 

[Kirjava]

all equal.

Well, that wont get a discussion started.

I just looked back and ****ing lol'd at this.

 

[JeffDelucia]

I don't want to start an argument but I do want to give my input. (ambitious right?)


The way I see it theres no way that any two method can be "equal". I'm sure there is one method that is faster for a lot of people. However other people with different strengths may do better with other methods.

 

[y3k9]

I don't want to start an argument but I do want to give my input. (ambitious right?)


The way I see it theres no way that any two method can be "equal". I'm sure there is one method that is faster for a lot of people. However other people with different strengths may do better with other methods.

gotta remember i said which you think is best, not necessarily quickest.

 

[Owen]

They're all good in their own specials ways.

 

[Vincents]

Maybe someone should define best...
If after 10 years of practice,
Method A gives you a 10.00 second average, with a standard deviation of 1.00 seconds,
and
Method B gives you a 9.50 second average, with a standard deviation of 0.1 seconds,

Which one is better? You get more sub-8 solves with method A, but more sub-10 solves with method B.

Assume normal distribution for both.

 

[ArcticxWolf]

What's roux?

CH CH CHHH CHHHHH CHHCHCHCHCHCH

 

[waffle=ijm]

What's roux?

CH CH CHHH CHHHHH CHHCHCHCHCHCH

I'm so glad someone remembers that.

 

[y3k9]

What's roux?

CH CH CHHH CHHHHH CHHCHCHCHCHCH

someone's surname.

 

[Andrew Ricci]

Also @waffo loving sela more. GTFO theanoncuber D:<

Ummm... I never said I loved Sarah, waffle just assumed I did from this post:

I like hitting on canadian girls right before I compete. I makes me feel like I'm less at a competition and more in canada.

I think I'll take your advice.

EDIT: Wait, are you talking about Sarah Strong?

I was referring to his post, not mine, and I was joking when I said I would take his advice because it was so bad.

 

[waffle=ijm]

plus what works for me doesn't always work for others.

 

[y3k9]

What's roux?

CH CH CHHH CHHHHH CHHCHCHCHCHCH

I'm so glad someone remembers that.

remembers what?