Roux, fridrich, or zz

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Do you guys even read these threads before you post? This is clearly a legitimate thread that is intended to start a *coughflamewarcough* debate about which method has the most potential. :rolleyes:

Oh, also
I think ZZ is slightly inferior to the other two. No reason you can't still get sub-10 with it, though.

:mad::mad::mad:

So, if you didn't just say that to make people mad, can you tell us why it's inferior? I'd like to know why I should switch back to Fridrich.
 
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Do you guys even read these threads before you post? This is clearly a legitimate thread that is intended to start a *coughflamewarcough* debate about which method has the most potential. :rolleyes:

Oh, also
I think ZZ is slightly inferior to the other two. No reason you can't still get sub-10 with it, though.

:mad::mad::mad:

So, if you didn't just say that to make people mad, can you tell us why it's inferior? I'd like to know why I should switch back to Fridrich.

lol the day I get sub 10 with it I **** on these sentences... It is still a fast method, even If nobody is crazy fast with it, but the Day will come and anybody will make sub 10 with it.

@topic: As many others said: there´s not the method. You just should choose the method which fits your preference the best :).
 
I personally prefer ZZ because I find it to be the most fun. I'm okay with choosing my methods this way because, as everyone has reiterated, they're pretty much all equal.
 
I wanna switch to ZZ, but the block building just doesn't work for me.
I think they all have pretty ridiculous potential.
For CFOP, it's just based on your execution speed and how long your delays are.
I'm sure there are similar things for Roux, ZZ, and Petrus.
 
it's the cuber, not the cube. not the lube. not the method.

True. My opinion:

Cuber>Method>Cube>Lube. But, with the method thing, I use fridrich. However, I use my own adaptation for the method, which I guess is kind of Petrus-ish. Here it is:

Usually, an F2L pair is already solved, so I put that it place before I even start the cross. Then, I put in the two cross arms next to the F2L pair, and solve the rest of the cross, then do the rest like normal fridrich.

I would recommend learning fridrich, and practicing with it, because it is fairly easy to get very fast with it. Then, if you feel that you want to try something new, try another method.
 
all equal.

i don't see how people can keep saying this with a straight face. do you honestly believe they are "all equal"? and i'm not sure if people agreeing with the insistent (mostly roux) users actually feel that way or just don't feel like stepping on any toes.

if you look at it one way, i think it's absolutely clear that fridrich is far beyond other methods right now. fridrich can be isolated into blocks of algorithms that hundreds of people have spent time optimizing over several years. there are many different algorithms that make themselves known through common use so as a cuber, you have different options to choose from that are all very good.

from an adaptable/ease of learning point of view - fridrich is a very natural transition from layer by layer method, and a lot of sites that teach a layer by layer also teach the transition to fridrich. this simply doesn't happen as well with other methods. there simply aren't as many resources out there on roux or whatever other methods people want to promote. yes, this may be because historically, fridrich came much earlier, but i think because of that, fridrich is the much more mature, developed, and better method right now. people can go from not knowing how to solve a cube to sub-20 in two months. i don't know of another method that can reasonably allow that to happen in such a short period of time. also, yes, a vast majority of the fastest people in the world do use fridrich, and that certainly counts for something.

looking at it from another point of view, you may say that - "sure, it's better now, but in the future, if more people were to use other methods, there could be a potentially better method." this is absolutely meaningless unless you can guess which one you think will end up better. if there's an inherent reason that one method, after a lot of work, will end up faster than other methods, then sure, you may have a point. for example, if you strongly believed that ZBF2L has the potential to be faster than fridrich, then sure, you may have an argument to make. but if you don't strongly believe that one method is theoretically better than others in the long run, this kind of argument is kind of pointless. it's like saying "sure, fridrich is the fastest method now, but WHO knows what developments can happen in the next ten years". almost nobody cares about what'll happen in the future, if they're picking a method, they want what's fastest now.
 
I personally use fridrich, it has a gentle learning curve that worked quite easily for me since I don't have a problem memorizing algorithms. That is why I prefer it, although since I'm kinda new to the game and I haven't put much effort into attempting ZZ or Roux I can't definitely say which one is "best".
 
Forgetting Petrus?

Anyway, I average 14 with CFOP, 20 with Roux, 22 with Petrus, and 25 with ZZ. I really only practice CFOP and occasionally Petrus for OH. I think all of these methods could become sub 10 given time and dedication.
 
IMO fridrich focuses more on algs and execution speed while petrus really needs efficiency (and look ahead). To me Roux is like a 'hybrid' between these two, in terms of advantages and stuff. Although they all can be fast, Fridrich will be easier to learn for most people.

I was using ZZ for a while and got ~25 averages with it before I decided I had enough of spamming long algs for LL. Although it's fast, it is not efficient and I feel like I'm wasting moves..
 
all equal.

i don't see how people can keep saying this with a straight face. do you honestly believe they are "all equal"?


There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

and i'm not sure if people agreeing with the insistent (mostly roux) users actually feel that way or just don't feel like stepping on any toes.


This is an absurd thing to say.

if you look at it one way, i think it's absolutely clear that fridrich is far beyond other methods right now. fridrich can be isolated into blocks of algorithms that hundreds of people have spent time optimizing over several years. there are many different algorithms that make themselves known through common use so as a cuber, you have different options to choose from that are all very good.


How does this make it "absolutely clear that fridrich is far beyond other methods right now". It's simply an aspect of the method. Of course more documentation exists, it's more popular (most of it redundant). This does not make it a 'better' method.

If less documentation was available for CFOP, it wouldn't make the method any different.

from an adaptable/ease of learning point of view - fridrich is a very natural transition from layer by layer method, and a lot of sites that teach a layer by layer also teach the transition to fridrich. this simply doesn't happen as well with other methods. there simply aren't as many resources out there on roux or whatever other methods people want to promote.


A multitude of resources are not required for successful implementation of a method.

yes, this may be because historically, fridrich came much earlier, but i think because of that, fridrich is the much more mature, developed, and better method right now.


You seem to have invented the non-existant issue of "lack of developments". ZOMG METHODS HAVE TO HAVE COLL AND VH AND WV AND CEPOLL AND MULTISLOTTING AND CLS AND ZB AND 2GLL AND CLLEF BECAUSE YOU CANT BE FAST BY JUST MAKING A CROSS AND THEN DOING FOUR F2L SLOTS AND THEN FIXING THE ORIENTATION OF THE LAST LAYER AND THEN PERMUTING THE PIECES IN THE LAST LAYER LOL NO ONE DOES THAT ANYMORE.

people can go from not knowing how to solve a cube to sub-20 in two months. i don't know of another method that can reasonably allow that to happen in such a short period of time.


Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It has. I'd rather you stopped displaying ignorant assumptions.

also, yes, a vast majority of the fastest people in the world do use fridrich, and that certainly counts for something.


You can use statistics to say a lot of things. I could bring up the fact that the average Roux user is faster than the average Fridrich user. But really, these all mean nothing in saying if one method is objectively better than another.

looking at it from another point of view, you may say that - "sure, it's better now, but in the future, if more people were to use other methods, there could be a potentially better method." this is absolutely meaningless unless you can guess which one you think will end up better.


I can and did.

if there's an inherent reason that one method, after a lot of work, will end up faster than other methods, then sure, you may have a point. for example, if you strongly believed that ZBF2L has the potential to be faster than fridrich, then sure, you may have an argument to make. but if you don't strongly believe that one method is theoretically better than others in the long run, this kind of argument is kind of pointless. it's like saying "sure, fridrich is the fastest method now, but WHO knows what developments can happen in the next ten years".


I'm at the point where reading this is giving me a headache.

almost nobody cares about what'll happen in the future, if they're picking a method, they want what's fastest now.


No method can be faster than any other. I advise you to think before you reply to this sentence.
 
okay, yikes.
okay first:
and i'm not sure if people agreeing with the insistent (mostly roux) users actually feel that way or just don't feel like stepping on any toes.


This is an absurd thing to say.

well, you think this is absurd to say, but i felt it was a valid question to ask. maybe it's absurd that i think it's a valid question, but that's how i feel.

moving on...
so you agree with those that say that a lot of methods are equal, and that there's no way to tell right now if one is better than another. but at the same time, i think it's easy to say that some methods are worse than others. clearly, a beginner's method is slower than full fridrich. by this same logic, i think it's strange to say that an arbitrary number of methods are "equal". i doubt they are equal, even if we have difficulty ranking them right now.

my point with documentation and development and all that wasn't the idea of coll or vh or all that, i was thinking more along the lines of last layer algorithms (and to some extent f2l algorithms). if there was less documentation available for cfop, i do strongly feel that it would be a worse method. there are a pretty large number of algorithms for the fridrich method, and the availability of very fast algorithms is a lot of what makes it a fast method. if nobody shared their pll and oll algorithms with each other, it would without a doubt be a slower method. for this reason, less popular variants of the last layer are going to be handicapped, because not as many people are interested in them and bettering the method.

for the sub-20 in two months thing, if it has happened, then sorry. i've just heard of people getting amazingly fast with fridrich in a short amount of time, but was under the impression roux had a much steeper learning curve.

you say that it's possible to misrepresent things with statistics, but i think that if the fastest, i dunno, 100 or so records in the world are done with cfop, it is much, much easier for someone to claim that cfop is the fastest method in the world than for someone else to claim that it is not. in my eyes, the burden of proof most definitely falls on that second person to back up his claim.

again, i disagree with the claim that no method can be faster than any other. there are undeniably some methods that are slower than other methods. trying to apply fmc methods to a speedsolve or doing layer by layer is definitely slower. similarly, i think few people will argue that petrus is slower than fridrich. of course, more people will argue if i were to say zz is slower than fridrich, and even more if i were to say roux is slower than fridrich. how is it that no method can be faster than any other? please explain this sentence. i don't understand it.

finally, i apologize that my post gave you a headache. i certainly didn't mean to cause physical pain to anyone with it.
 
all equal.

i don't see how people can keep saying this with a straight face. do you honestly believe they are "all equal"?

blah blah blah

By "equal" I will assume you are referring to the alg count.
And no, CFOP is inferior in this aspect.

huh? lol
i don't think we were ever talking about alg count, unless i missed something >_>

What exactly do you mean by equal? Execution? Speed? Potential? Alg count?

I don't see how a method is superior than another other than the no. of algs you have to learn.
 
no, well i assumed we were talking about speed/potential for speed, since that's all that matters in the end, right?

if you were going by alg count, then beginners methods and blindfold methods are both better than full fridrich, which doesn't really make any sense.
 
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oh. maybe he means that if you learn more algs then it's a better method. well, going by this method, zbf2l wins hands down, doesn't it? lol. i already addressed this in one of my apparently too long posts earlier in the thread.
 
What are you guys talking about? This alg count thing doesn't make any sense. Are algs bad or good?

Theyre talking about how many algrithoms aare needed for each method. The less the better basically.
 
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