Random Blindfold Cubing Discussion

[Mike Hughey]

Very fascinating, Chris. I also have a problem with vocalizing. When I memorized my square-1 matrices, I memorized a number of them semi-vocally, so the images weren't clear. Those are the ones I've forgotten - I remember all of the pure image ones very clearly. It's really hard to resist vocalizing.

And I actually find that even with conversations around me, I can often vocalize fairly easily. I'm fairly good at tuning out the conversations, unless they're completely irresistibly interesting.

I really feel that vocalizing is my biggest problem with memorizing.

 

[aronpm]

I also think it's a good way to better learn to visualize your journeys without sub-vocalizing the interactions (because you HAVE to if you want any hope of getting through your memo!)

I really feel that vocalizing is my biggest problem with memorizing.

I feel that vocalizing is my biggest strength in memorizing. All of my memo systems (4, 5, 7, multi, not 3) use it. It's why I describe my method as "location-based sentences". I don't visualize the actual action happening unless it's hard to memorize (but even then, it might not be an actual visible event; in that case, I just suck it up and deal with it ), which allows me to basically use my 3bld audio/word sentence memo for everything, but it's less efficient obviously, because I start sentences with things like "In my bedroom..." or "At the front door..."

But related to Chris' question, I used to listen to the music while doing 5bld (mostly soft music like The Beatles) but I stopped doing that. I also used to practice without headphones and with the TV on, but I stopped that too. It wasn't really 'distracting' for me, but I'd rather do it without sound.

 

[RyanReese09]

What is vocalizing? Should I be doing it?

 

[Mike Hughey]

Wow, Aron, that's interesting. I definitely vocalize on 3x3x3 BLD, and I consider that a plus. It's fast for very short sequences. I am essentially doing a sentence myself for 3x3x3 BLD edges, vocalized, although I also sometimes get the images as well. For corners I use the auditory loop, which is not a sentence, just words.

So perhaps I should try intentionally vocalizing sentences for bigger cubes; maybe it would be much faster. You've shown that 4x4x4 is really still a quite small cube; maybe Chris and I have the wrong idea by thinking we need something as big as image memorization to deal with such a small amount of data. When Chris started using this technique, a 4x4x4 seemed like a lot of data; now our perception has changed so much that it seems almost tiny.

 

[toastman]

I feel that vocalizing is my biggest strength in memorizing. All of my memo systems (4, 5, 7, multi, not 3) use it. It's why I describe my method as "location-based sentences". I don't visualize the actual action happening unless it's hard to memorize (but even then, it might not be an actual visible event; in that case, I just suck it up and deal with it ), which allows me to basically use my 3bld audio/word sentence memo for everything, but it's less efficient obviously, because I start sentences with things like "In my bedroom..." or "At the front door..."

Different Strokes 'eh. Me, I simply can't seem to do vocalisation/sentences. Even for basic 3BLD where I'm currently trying sentences for edges and "audio loops" of single syllable words for edges.
I find sentences way faster than images... but they just don't stick. E.g.
Location 1, Bathroom, UTWPRX - If I say "Uma Thurman Whips some Rocks", even if I repeat it a bunch of times, I'll likely forget it. But if I picture her, in a leather suit and a whip and some rocks, it sticks hard. Even boring ones stick, as long as I have the image:

3BLD, I *forget* about half the time I do sentences, but have memoed 3 cubes with made-up images no problemo, recall was very easy. In fact, I was almost going ask you guys how the hell you managed to do it with sentenses in the Q+A thread. I guess people's brains work differently (like those dudes who can do visual memo of a 7x7).

*BUT*, I haven't yet done your trick of adding the LOCATION to the sentence. Will try a few tonight.

-=-=-=-

Also, tried a few solves recently with some death metal (MESHUGGAH!) thrashing just to see if I could do it. Very very hard and I found it good distraction training. When I turned everything off, my next solve felt SO EASY.

 

[Cubenovice]

I find the biggest destraction factor in the music is the actual language it is in, not the type of music.

If i cannot understand it it is just "noise".
If i can understand it but it is not my native language: no problem
Native language (Dutch) is definately most distracting, especially when it is slow songs or just regular speech.

 

[toastman]

*BUT*, I haven't yet done your trick of adding the LOCATION to the sentence. Will try a few tonight.

GOD DAMN! THIS WORKS DUDE! THANKS! SMAAAAAASHED my old PB tonight.
5 solves, Memo was fine for 4 of them (one of them I forgot to do it properly).

OK, you do it like this.
WKSELF - A WiKi SEws a LoaF. Location 1, my bathroom...

Old way: Imagine the big wikipedia logo, sitting on the can in my bathroom, with a needle and thread sewing a loaf of bread... If you can. It's tricky, but if you can do it, it sticks.
Fail way: "Just try and remember that sentence, and it's in the bathroom". FAIL. After doing corners, my mind would be blank. If I was lucky and patient I'd step through the alphabet and something would stick.
NEW WAY: Memo the sentence "In the bathroom, a wiki sews a loaf".
So when you get to it, your brain goes "In the bathroom... what... oh yeah, in the bathroom a wiki sews a loaf". I don't know how it works, but it just works.

Good news is I could just pick locations at random, well before starting the solve. On my 4th one I picked my sink and my dishwasher, "locations" which I'd not used before. Seemed to work OK, but my "normal" locations were way easy.

I also repeated each sentence in my head 2-3 times to lock it in. Probably didn't need to.
For me, I don't think this will go so well for MultiBLD, but for 3BLD, yeah, it's fast as hell. Memoed 10 edge targets in 1:20. Used to take me up to 3 minutes.

THANKS ARONPM! You too Hug-hey! I'm going to be smashing some PBs!

 

[lucarubik]

easy question
ive noticed that 5x5 BLD shouldnt be anything i cant do since ive already solved it with comms and memo is about 2 3x3 and a 4x4, i dont even have a 5x5 but anyway, is there any parity problem, like an only one middle edge fliped or something?

 

[irontwig]

You can only get 4x4 parities; the midges work like those on a 3x3.

 

[Zane_C]

easy question
ive noticed that 5x5 BLD shouldnt be anything i cant do since ive already solved it with comms and memo is about 2 3x3 and a 4x4, i dont even have a 5x5 but anyway, is there any parity problem, like an only one middle edge fliped or something?

-There's the wing parity just like on the 4x4.

-And there's the parity which is associated with the 3x3 (odd midge and odd corner swaps).
However, when you apply the 3x3 PLL alg to fix this parity, some wings are upset. (Which needs to be dealt with by a separate alg)

As irontwig said, the midges and corners work exactly the same as a 3x3.

 

[lucarubik]

I see
that second parity you are talking about seems hard zane, any idea to solve it? cause if i solve the last corner with OP i mess everything

 

[RyanReese09]

So for 5bld if you memo the cube, execute in something like

Corners
+ Centers
X Centers
Midges
Wings

(Midges and centers might be swapped, haven't decided)

What step will I need the parity alg. What is it? What should I do when I have it? THe M slice would be off so I'd have to fix that. I know one parity alg for switching the two wings as in 4bld, so I assume I'd apply tht if I have parity after wings.

 

[Zane_C]

I see
that second parity you are talking about seems hard zane, any idea to solve it? cause if i solve the last corner with OP i mess everything

If you swap UB and UL edges with an R-perm to fix parity, then those wings will also be swapped.
To put the wings back where they were, you can do B U' B' (Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2) B U B'.

 

[lucarubik]

thanks, as i said i dont have a 5x5 right here but as soon as posible Ill try that alg

 

[cmhardw]

Wow, I'm surprised by the sub-vocalizing opinions here. Aron, that's crazy that you actually use this to your advantage! I've been consistently told by the memory sports experts that sub-vocalizing when using an image based method is to be avoided as much as possible. I've recently gotten to the point where I can do this in spurts, maybe even as long as 2 locations (6 images) with very minimal sub-vocalizing. Some of my locations, though, I narrate in all the relevant detail the action that happens in the location

Mike, that's very interesting that you still remember all the square-1 translation matrices that you memorized purely visually, but not the ones done vocally. Have you gone back and tried to re-memorize the forgotten ones again? I imagine relearning them would be much easier than deriving them the first time.

Wow... This talk of a 4x4x4 not being very much information to memorize vocally or visually, basically without images, makes me feel so n00b I have a hard time using single syllable words to memorize a full 3x3x3. If I use words for both corners and edges I find that I struggle to remember it all. Either I will forget the entirety of the corners phrases, or I will poorly memorize the edges phrase and have huge gaps, and sometimes I even intertwine parts of each into one larger, incorrect, memorization.

I still feel like a 4x4x4 is enough information that, for me at least, a larger image and corner word system is completely necessary to being able to memorize it relatively quickly

To those who also said that they are working on trying to limit or reduce their sub-vocalizing I will continue to try to use rap music in my practice (Tim I think that's a good idea). I'll try to report on how it goes.

P.S. Ryan thanks for the song, I added it to my grooveshark list

 

[RyanReese09]

Lose yourself is also another great one. I forgot to mention that when I posted .

 

[cmhardw]

Lose yourself is also another great one. I forgot to mention that when I posted .

Already got that one

My playlist is:
No Love, Soldier, Beautiful, Never Enough, Cleaning out my closet, Mosh, Talkin' 2 Myself, Like Toy Soldiers, Stan, Sing for the Moment, Just Lose It, When I'm Gone, Drop the World, Mockingbird, Lose Yourself, Not Afraid

If anyone has any suggestions of any inspirational or motivational songs for BLD solving please post them! I'm collecting a huge play list! (Thanks to those who have already posted songs!)

 

[qqwref]

As far as distractions go, I wonder if it might be worth going a bit further than rap, and actually using something nonmusical. I'm thinking specifically of speeches - a TED talk, a political debate, a podcast. Ideally it would be something you're vaguely interested in, because then it would mimic actual competition noise. Your subconscious would go "ooh! I wanna listen", but you'd have to try a bit harder to tell it not to.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Mike, that's very interesting that you still remember all the square-1 translation matrices that you memorized purely visually, but not the ones done vocally. Have you gone back and tried to re-memorize the forgotten ones again? I imagine relearning them would be much easier than deriving them the first time.

They're really easy to relearn - I've relearned most of them now, and I should have the rest by this weekend. The nice thing is that this time it's easy for me to identify the ones I vocalized (they're the ones I don't remember!), so I can make it a point to really image them this time. They'll probably stick much better now.

As far as distractions go, I wonder if it might be worth going a bit further than rap, and actually using something nonmusical. I'm thinking specifically of speeches - a TED talk, a political debate, a podcast. Ideally it would be something you're vaguely interested in, because then it would mimic actual competition noise. Your subconscious would go "ooh! I wanna listen", but you'd have to try a bit harder to tell it not to.

Many years ago, Chris mentioned listening to standup comedy. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned it again lately in this context. For me, that's just about the worst thing for distraction training, as long as it's really good. The problem is that's often hard to find.

Chester and Andrew Kang in the same room is the one thing that's worse than that.

 

[RyanReese09]

Already got that one

My playlist is:
No Love, Soldier, Beautiful, Never Enough, Cleaning out my closet, Mosh, Talkin' 2 Myself, Like Toy Soldiers, Stan, Sing for the Moment, Just Lose It, When I'm Gone, Drop the World, Mockingbird, Lose Yourself, Not Afraid

If anyone has any suggestions of any inspirational or motivational songs for BLD solving please post them! I'm collecting a huge play list! (Thanks to those who have already posted songs!)

I could give you my running playlist. Only like 13 songs (will be around 100 soon, since I refuse to run my October marathon listening to the same 13 songs ). It's full of pump up songs and "jammy". Mostly pop. but there is 1 metal, 2 hard rock, rest are pop..ish.

It's great running songs to pump you up.

But yeah, what is vocalizing? I'm interested.