Quest to learn full ZBLL [SUSPENDED]

[Tao Yu]

you are right but there are many good PLL algs, it just depends on what the learner chooses.
The guy probably genned the algs that suit him and what he thinks will suit other people.
They are good but other people might choose others.
tbh like 98 percent of the algs will not suit people but its just the most optimized
some of the algs can be optimized to suit you tho
to bad we have to gen it ourselves oof

buut there are probably some algs that can be clearly genned more better, but other than that its good

I don't think you understood what I meant. The problem is that are likely many better algs for 1LLL cases which haven't even been discovered. With PLL you can choose from many good algs exactly because people put a lot of time and effort into every alg including running cube explorer for hours, timing countless candidate algs, figuring out fingertricks that make bad algs good and applying transformations that make an alg better. It's much harder to do this to the same degree with 1LLL.

 

[Nir1213]

I don't think you understood what I meant. The problem is that are likely many better algs for 1LLL cases which haven't even been discovered. With PLL you can choose from many good algs exactly because people put a lot of time and effort into every alg including running cube explorer for hours, timing countless candidate algs, figuring out fingertricks that make bad algs good and applying transformations that make an alg better. It's much harder to do this to the same degree with 1LLL.

yea you have a point. Someone would have to do this for years maybe to optimize most of them, and even there are probably better
but he probably took a shortcut and used like okay algs.
it wouldnt matter tho cause no one gonna bother learn 4000 algs lol

If you prefer RUL algs to RUF algs, that probably means your fingertricks still need improvements.

It makes sense that you find RUL easier now. It's quite a simple moveset: you just do U moves with index flicks and R and L with wrist turns.

For RUF algs you need to plan your fingertricks so that the right fingers are in the right place when a F move comes along. This often requires tricks such as backward OH flicks and pushes for U moves. You also have to learn to do F moves in many different ways - there's at least 5 or 6, and there's fingertricks that you'll need to learn using your thumb, index, ring and pinky fingers. You will also need to learn which of these fingertricks to use in which situation.

As someone who likes to learn algs you need to have the attitude that you will learn to properly fingertrick RUF algs. You should expect this to make you eventually prefer RUF algs to RUL (in the majority of cases).

i think too but however if you get the fingertricks right for the ruf its pretty smooth for you on the long run. Some people still underestimate the pinch u which kinda sucks tho. That fingertrick is good if your using RUF and want little to no fingergrips.

RUL is okay too as long as you have the right fingertricks so you dont regrip alot

 

[LukasCubes]

Bruh why did you make a new thread?

1LLL is too different than OLL and COLL.

you dont have to learn 1LLL lol i was just saying that because your critsizims sounded like you expected someone to do it, like you
but anyway its what @LukasCubes chooses.

you are right but there are many good PLL algs, it just depends on what the learner chooses.
The guy probably genned the algs that suit him and what he thinks will suit other people.
They are good but other people might choose others.
tbh like 98 percent of the algs will not suit people but its just the most optimized
some of the algs can be optimized to suit you tho
to bad we have to gen it ourselves oof

buut there are probably some algs that can be clearly genned more better, but other than that its good

And I choose learning 1LLL

idk he always does that but he probably did that because this quest is gonna be stupid long with tons of pages about @LukasCubes talking how many algs he has learnt
and its litterally 4000 algs like i think its better for him to put this all in one thread and not in another or its gonna be really messy lol

You are correct lol but I am keeping all the 1LLL quest here.

If you prefer RUL algs to RUF algs, that probably means your fingertricks still need improvements.

It makes sense that you find RUL easier now. It's quite a simple moveset: you just do U moves with index flicks and R and L with wrist turns.

For RUF algs you need to plan your fingertricks so that the right fingers are in the right place when a F move comes along. This often requires tricks such as backward OH flicks and pushes for U moves. You also have to learn to do F moves in many different ways - there's at least 5 or 6, and there's fingertricks that you'll need to learn using your thumb, index, ring and pinky fingers. You will also need to learn which of these fingertricks to use in which situation.

As someone who likes to learn algs you need to have the attitude that you will learn to properly fingertrick RUF algs. You should expect this to make you eventually prefer RUF algs to RUL (in the majority of cases).

I am sub-20 and I do need to improve all my finger tricks but despite turning mainly Righty turns, I am left handed in real life so thats why I prefer RUL algs BARELY over RUF algs. I still like RUF algs like other cubers tho. I can properly fingertrich RUF moves too.

 

[Athefre]

The algs in that document could definitely be improved a lot. Many of them seem like they were just taken from the first few algs generated by Cube Explorer. It feels like, for many cases, effort wasn't put into looking at longer, easier to perform algs. I was using that document while developing CLL+1. At first I thought it was useful, but eventually realized that I was able to find better algs myself when I put the time in for each case.

 

[effperm]

what is your learning order? 0-3916 just like the sheet?

 

[TheSlykrCubr]

I don't think you understood what I meant. The problem is that are likely many better algs for 1LLL cases which haven't even been discovered. With PLL you can choose from many good algs exactly because people put a lot of time and effort into every alg including running cube explorer for hours, timing countless candidate algs, figuring out fingertricks that make bad algs good and applying transformations that make an alg better. It's much harder to do this to the same degree with 1LLL.

as an example of pll's not being optimised, i made a shorter nb perm that's slightly shorter
F2 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F2 R2

 

[qwr]

@Bindedsa will surely beat you. He has like at least a thousands algs headstart

 

[xyzzy]

as an example of pll's not being optimised, i made a shorter nb perm that's slightly shorter
F2 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F2 R2

Show a video of yourself executing that alg sub-2 (or faster than the other existing N perm algs) and I'll believe you.

Anyone can easily find move-optimal algs using Cube Explorer or the like; that's not really what we're talking about here.

 

[abunickabhi]

All the best for learning 1LLL. I would rather become better in method neutrality before learning 1LLL. Also, I am learning 5-style currently so 1LLL will not be on my radar.

Good luck! Hope you don't give up soon.

 

[LukasCubes]

The algs in that document could definitely be improved a lot. Many of them seem like they were just taken from the first few algs generated by Cube Explorer. It feels like, for many cases, effort wasn't put into looking at longer, easier to perform algs. I was using that document while developing CLL+1. At first I thought it was useful, but eventually realized that I was able to find better algs myself when I put the time in for each case.

I know some of the algs can be improved but these algs are the ones I am using.

what is your learning order? 0-3916 just like the sheet?

I will start with the beginning of the doc and work my way through he cases. Startun with Case 1 and go through case 3916.

@Bindedsa will surely beat you. He has like at least a thousands algs headstart

I know he will

as an example of pll's not being optimised, i made a shorter nb perm that's slightly shorter
F2 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F2 R2

I will stick with the one I have now but others might be interested in it

All the best for learning 1LLL. I would rather become better in method neutrality before learning 1LLL. Also, I am learning 5-style currently so 1LLL will not be on my radar.

Good luck! Hope you don't give up soon.

I am method neutral between CFOP and ZB so I think it is time for me. Everyone has different opinions on whether people should learn 1LLL at all or when they should do it and for me, i think I should do it.

 

[Nir1213]

I am method neutral between CFOP and ZB so I think it is time for me. Everyone has different opinions on whether people should learn 1LLL at all or when they should do it and for me, i think I should do it.

oh cool

 

[LukasCubes]

I had something to do that durailed my goal of 24 algs per week so ima change the 2GLL goal to December. Also if nothing else interupt my alg learning pace, I should have them all done by December.

 

[Nir1213]

I had something to do that durailed my goal of 24 algs per week so ima change the 2GLL goal to December. Also if nothing else interupt my alg learning pace, I should have them all done by December.

oh well good luck

 

[TheSlykrCubr]

I had something to do that durailed my goal of 24 algs per week so ima change the 2GLL goal to December. Also if nothing else interupt my alg learning pace, I should have them all done by December.

I'd say do maybe tripod ll after 2gll just cause it's pretty short

 

[LukasCubes]

I'd say do maybe tripod ll after 2gll just cause it's pretty short

no im gonna go ZBLL before tripod LL.

 

[Nir1213]

no im gonna go ZBLL before tripod LL.

just do it your way it doesnt really matter
but its common sense to start small then big because like for example, you cant jump before you walk.

 

[LukasCubes]

Week 2 technically starts today but i will start learning algs tomorrow as I have no school tomorrow due to election day.

 

[WoowyBaby]

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum thread, but considering your goal of learning a large alg set (3915), I thought my idea is relevant and useful to your endevour, and this is quite a new thread so there are active people that can respond to my thoughts.

So recently, I have not been cubing. At all. I did it for a while, like 2 years in my life and it was a great time, but I've moved on to other interests, specifically, learning Japanese. I literally immerse 24/7 and I'm actually listening to a TV show on my mp3 player as I am writing this. I'm serious about this haha. anyway, what I'm trying to get to is I have been using Anki in my language learning journey- and I realized it is an incredibly useful resource for memorizing a large alg set such as 1LLL.

If you don't know, Anki is a program (software) that is a spaced repitition flash card system which shows you your information you want to remember right before you'll probably forget it, so you can forever retain information with the least amount of memorizing and reviewing. To be honest, the Anki algorithm is super simple, but whatever lol. Anki is most popular among medical students and language learners.

If you did 43 new 1LLL cards per day, then you would learn all 3915 in exactly 3 months.
An estimate for how much time you'd be reviewing daily would be approximentely 2 or so hours/day, which is definitely a lot, but also definitely possible.

REALIZATION:
THIS EXISTS!

The objectively and measurably best way to learn ZBLL. The Anki approach.

Hi Back in 2016 i started working on an Anki deck for learning ZBLL for TH and OH rightie. Later Simon Kalhofer (@Petro Leum ) jumped on the train and added algs for OH leftie and added a nice tagging system. Today is finally the day we share the deck. I encourage you to read the whole...

www.speedsolving.com

The objectively and measurably best way to learn ZBLL - AnkiWeb

If up your Anki the exact way that he does and set new cards to 35/day you can learn all 493 ZBLL algs in exactly 2 weeks.

I highly, highly recommend this.

Once you finish that whole ZBLL which won't take you very long at all, and if you still want to learn full 1LLL after doing that, I recommend creating your own Anki deck with the same format as that ZBLL deck you just went through- it might take a bit of time to make a 1LLL deck yourself but it's just a ton of copy + paste from the 1LLL database so I don't think it will take very long, probably just like 1-2 days. After you finish the ZBLL deck and make your own 1LLL deck, just keep going man.
Make sure you keep up with your reviews every day- do them first thing in the morning and make it a habit, because if you don't do your scheduled reviews for that day then you'll forget all of the algs that Anki has scheduled for you.

I don't know who you are, but I know you can learn 1LLL.

You can do it. And you can do it fast and you'll remember the algs well. If you have a lot of time to learn new algs, you can finish all of 1LLL in 3 months or possibly even faster, although learning all 3915 algs in 2 months would require roughly 4ish hours of reps per day, but don't worry, even if you don't really have very much free time, like less than 2 hours per day, you still get them all learned in 6 months.

The important thing is consistency- always do your reps every day- if you have an off day and you don't feel like learning new algs, that's okay, you dont have to add any new cards that day if you don;t want to, but whatever you do, don't miss the reviews from algs you've already learned. Like what I'm saying is if you can't make new progress that's fine, just don't take a step backward.



Also, a really important tip is to never use the 'Hard' button. Click Good if you got it, and Again if you didn't get it.
The Hard button was a bad design feature. Also, use the EXACT same Anki settings that the forum post says to and you're good.




I apoligize for this mess of a post, it's jsut a stream of thoughts, but I hope this was useful



I believe in you ★ ★

 

[One Jump Man]

This is hella ambitious, but I'm rooting for you, man!

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

What is the point in learning this alg set? I’m not trying to be condescending I’m just wondering what’s in it for you?

This arguably won’t improve your times at all until you’ve learned all the algs and committed them to muscle memory and can recognize them quickly. That could take years.

Are you learning this as a party trick? A sense of pride? Or is learnig algs just that fun for you, even if you can’t apply it in your daily solves?!?