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Carcass' Quest to learn Flipped Last Slot

carcass

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Mar 8, 2020
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This is an entirely unused alg set(to my knowledge), and i thought it looked cool. In essence, if you come to your last slot and the edge is flipped in its place, you can skip oll. So far I have learned 7 algs. Here is where they are from: https://www.cuberoot.me/fls/
Even if the algs aren't that good, I want to be a sort of experiment. There is a small youcuber who learned full ollcp just to see how good it is in its entirety. In this case, however, there are less than 50 algs so i have a lot less to lose. I do, however, think it can be very useful.
Here is an easy alg: R' F R F' R' U2 R2 U R2 U R (do a U move after the alg, and it will solve oll, assuming you started with a solved oll)
 

Alex Davison

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At first I was going to bash this alg set because it seemed stupid. After all, getting last slot with flipped edge is quite rare.

However, I realized that if you use this alg set, then you don't have to worry about the orientation of the last F2L edge, which means that you can often save time with your last F2L pair. For example if you had this F2L case for last slot

cube.rider.biz.png

then instead of d R' U2 R U2 R' U R you can just use the insertion R U R'.

Interesting alg set, definitely will be interesting to see what results you get!
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
Messages
541
I’ve also
This is an entirely unused alg set(to my knowledge), and i thought it looked cool. In essence, if you come to your last slot and the edge is flipped in its place, you can skip oll. So far I have learned 7 algs. Here is where they are from: https://www.cuberoot.me/fls/
Even if the algs aren't that good, I want to be a sort of experiment. There is a small youcuber who learned full ollcp just to see how good it is in its entirety. In this case, however, there are less than 50 algs so i have a lot less to lose. I do, however, think it can be very useful.
Here is an easy alg: R' F R F' R' U2 R2 U R2 U R (do a U move after the alg, and it will solve oll, assuming you started with a solved oll)
I’ve also thought about learning this set at some point so I might after I finish learning tripod. The algs don’t seem to be too bad. If I were you, the way I would learn this is to go through and sort the cases by whether or not the actual alg is done when the edge is flipped in the FR, FL, or BR F2L slot. If the alg starts with d or d’ it’s really just a rotation less setup to have the flipped edge in a different slot. This way you can learn all the executed with the flipped edge in FR then FL and so on to make it more efficient and you won’t have to worry about what slot it needs to be in while learning since you’ll have them sorted out.
 

xyzzy

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Dec 24, 2015
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then instead of d R' U2 R U2 R' U R you can just use the insertion R U R'.
(r' U2 R2 U R2 U r, but that's besides the point.)

It never seems worth it to deliberately go for a flipped-edge solution to save 4 moves in F2L but have to deal with a worse analogue of OLL. The value of FLS (aka OLS-FE) is probably that on the rare occasion where you get this specific F2L case, instead of fixing it with keyhole immediately (8-9 moves) or using the direct algs (9-12 moves), you can defer it to the last slot and solve OLL simultaneously (saves roughly 5-6 moves over solving OLL separately).

Comparing the full sets to each other, ZBLS (only two cases) + ZBLL is still better than OLS-FE + PLL, but obviously also has like 400 more algs so that's not an entirely fair comparison. Better yet would be picking the better subsets of OLS-FE to learn, although without having learnt the full set it's hard to judge which subsets are better or worse.

In this case, however, there are less than 50 algs so i have a lot less to lose.
Not that it substantially detracts from your point, but it's really 54 algs.

---

Also, the 3-flip algs mostly look like garbage. I sure would like to see if anyone can do all of the 3-flips at roughly the same speed as OLL.
 

qwr

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Is cube root a Chinese community run page? They have an insane listing of algorithms that seems like a monumental task for one person to do.
 

carcass

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Eating some delicious pineapple pizza
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2018HANC03
(r' U2 R2 U R2 U r, but that's besides the point.)

It never seems worth it to deliberately go for a flipped-edge solution to save 4 moves in F2L but have to deal with a worse analogue of OLL. The value of FLS (aka OLS-FE) is probably that on the rare occasion where you get this specific F2L case, instead of fixing it with keyhole immediately (8-9 moves) or using the direct algs (9-12 moves), you can defer it to the last slot and solve OLL simultaneously (saves roughly 5-6 moves over solving OLL separately).

Comparing the full sets to each other, ZBLS (only two cases) + ZBLL is still better than OLS-FE + PLL, but obviously also has like 400 more algs so that's not an entirely fair comparison. Better yet would be picking the better subsets of OLS-FE to learn, although without having learnt the full set it's hard to judge which subsets are better or worse.


Not that it substantially detracts from your point, but it's really 54 algs.

---

Also, the 3-flip algs mostly look like garbage. I sure would like to see if anyone can do all of the 3-flips at roughly the same speed as OLL.
First of all, I am honored to hear from the smartest member on the forums on this thread.
I do recognize that there are more efficient ways to do this in f2l, but sometimes you may think a pair is solved, but the edge is flipped. Also, they usually take around 12-13 moves, so efficiency isn't a problem.
To address the crappy 3 flip algs, I think that one day there will be better algs, maybe as good as the dot olls. First, I am learning the 1 flip, and maybe later the 3 flip. At one point in my cubing career, I do want to have learned TUL ZB, but that is a lot of algs.
Finally, this is in part for fun. I like algs, and I haven't seen any real use for this set, so I wanted to try it. I think there are a few situations where this could be faster. For the 3 flip, maybe i should just find the best 3 flip alg, and use it for EO only when I get that case. I do, however, think 3 flip could be avoided in the second to last slot.
 

carcass

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Eating some delicious pineapple pizza
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2018HANC03
so my learning is going well, but my recog isn't that good because i don't have a trainer. Is there an alg trainer with customizable cases? That would be nice.
Or i could generate an optimal solution, reverse it on an index card, and use that....
it would be more inconvenient, but whatever is necessary
 
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so my learning is going well, but my recog isn't that good because i don't have a trainer. Is there an alg trainer with customizable cases? That would be nice.
Or i could generate an optimal solution, reverse it on an index card, and use that....
it would be more inconvenient, but whatever is necessary
I think this is what you need. You can insert a set of custom algs and drill them.
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
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so my learning is going well, but my recog isn't that good because i don't have a trainer. Is there an alg trainer with customizable cases? That would be nice.
Or i could generate an optimal solution, reverse it on an index card, and use that....
it would be more inconvenient, but whatever is necessary
You could just program a trainer yourself. It’s really not hard. I’ve done it for curvy copter algs. The main thing would be generating the scramble sequences since you don’t wanna just use the inverses since you’ll recognize it and I would be the inverse of one alg is the alg of another case. The way I would do this is do a random PLL, flip the hardware in place, put the state into cube explorer, and have it generate a scramble for that state. Then you could use those outputs as your trainer scrambles. If you need help with it, me and many others in the forum could probably help you
 

qwr

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You could just program a trainer yourself. It’s really not hard. I’ve done it for curvy copter algs. The main thing would be generating the scramble sequences since you don’t wanna just use the inverses since you’ll recognize it and I would be the inverse of one alg is the alg of another case. The way I would do this is do a random PLL, flip the hardware in place, put the state into cube explorer, and have it generate a scramble for that state. Then you could use those outputs as your trainer scrambles. If you need help with it, me and many others in the forum could probably help you
Maybe this suggests a need for a universal puzzle trainer, instead of all the individual algsets trainers we have
 
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