Possible 2011 WCA Regulations Changes

[FatBoyXPC]

Man, I read this thread a bit late, and QQ took my question (About using other body parts).

I'd just like to point out that there is no "body part" type restriction in the normal speedsolving regulation (Article A).

 

[DavidWoner]

Right, but what I mean is, if you're aiming to emulate the solving of someone who only has the use of one hand, it would be expected that you allow use of anything other than the other hand to help the solve.

No it wouldn't. In standard speedsolving you are allowed the use of only the surface. One handed regulations should emulate the 2h regs, sans one of your hands. The procedure for a one-handed person's solves during the OH event should mirror those of their solves in the regular 2H event. This is even supported by the current regulations: "C1) Standard procedure is followed as described in Article A (Speed Solving)."

"C1b) During the solve no other body part or any object other than the surface must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve. " is basically redundant, as it is already covered by the application of C1 on to "A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not have any assistance from anyone or any object (other than the surface). Penalty: disqualification of the solve."

Without the superfluous regulation, the OH regs can exactly be summed up as "Same as 2-handed solving, but you can't touch the puzzle with one of your hands while the timer is running."

Edit: @fatboyxpc: That depends on your interpretation of "any object" in A5b. I believe other body parts falls under the category of "any object," and should be a DNF, with the theoretical exception of someone with no arms etc.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Fair enough, David. I made the mistake of assuming since it was explicitly stated for OH that it would be in "Speedsolving" as well.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Slightly off the current topic, but when will we know what the new 2011 regulations are / When they come out

 

[qqwref]

No it wouldn't. In standard speedsolving you are allowed the use of only the surface.

I don't think other parts of your body are intended to count as "objects" in A5b. Note that they're considered different in C1b: "no other body part or any object..." It's not the two-handed event, but the anything-goes event (as long as you aren't assisted by other people/things).

Slightly off the current topic, but when will we know what the new 2011 regulations are / When they come out

As soon as all these arguments are made once again on the WCA forum, and Ron decides which changes he agrees with. Should be in a month or so.

 

[irontwig]

Mean of 3 in 1 hour seems to short of time per cube

Yes, but that was not what I meant, what I was proposing is that FMC could be held in these three formats: Best of 1, Best of 2 (both possible under the current regulations), Median of 3 (new format and better imo for choosing continental/world champion) and each solve having the usual 1h limit.

 

[Pedro]

No it wouldn't. In standard speedsolving you are allowed the use of only the surface. One handed regulations should emulate the 2h regs, sans one of your hands. The procedure for a one-handed person's solves during the OH event should mirror those of their solves in the regular 2H event. This is even supported by the current regulations: "C1) Standard procedure is followed as described in Article A (Speed Solving)."

"C1b) During the solve no other body part or any object other than the surface must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve. " is basically redundant, as it is already covered by the application of C1 on to "A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not have any assistance from anyone or any object (other than the surface). Penalty: disqualification of the solve."

Without the superfluous regulation, the OH regs can exactly be summed up as "Same as 2-handed solving, but you can't touch the puzzle with one of your hands while the timer is running."

Edit: @fatboyxpc: That depends on your interpretation of "any object" in A5b. I believe other body parts falls under the category of "any object," and should be a DNF, with the theoretical exception of someone with no arms etc.

Article A doens't forbid the use of other body parts:

A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not have any assistance from anyone or any object (other than the surface). Penalty: disqualification of the solve.


I agree that allowing the intentional use of the surface is pretty dumb.
Chris said that the TV people may give you a table...but what if you're just walking down the street with your cube, and someone asks you to do a OH solve?
You say like: "Oh, sorry, I need a table"

 

[JonnyWhoopes]

I agree that allowing the intentional use of the surface is pretty dumb.
Chris said that the TV people may give you a table...but what if you're just walking down the street with your cube, and someone asks you to do a OH solve?
You say like: "Oh, sorry, I need a table"

Well, we have to remember; are these competitions for speedcubers, or people on the street? We aren't discussing whether we should train ourselves not to use a table at all times, just in competition.

 

[marthaurion]

Yes, but that was not what I meant, what I was proposing is that FMC could be held in these three formats: Best of 1, Best of 2 (both possible under the current regulations), Median of 3 (new format and better imo for choosing continental/world champion) and each solve having the usual 1h limit.

Isn't Median of 3 pretty much the same as Average of 3?

 

[Rune]

Average of 1,2,DNF=DNF
Median of 1,2,DNF=2

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Article A doens't forbid the use of other body parts:

A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not have any assistance from anyone or any object (other than the surface). Penalty: disqualification of the solve.


I agree that allowing the intentional use of the surface is pretty dumb.
Chris said that the TV people may give you a table...but what if you're just walking down the street with your cube, and someone asks you to do a OH solve?
You say like: "Oh, sorry, I need a table"

I would say that David has a valid point on that it isn't defined on what all is considered an object and can be interpreted in various ways.

 

[Pedro]

Well, maybe he does, but I don't consider my arm/leg/belly/head as "an object"...

Well, we have to remember; are these competitions for speedcubers, or people on the street? We aren't discussing whether we should train ourselves not to use a table at all times, just in competition.

Sure the comps are different places, where you have timers and audience and judges and stuff. But I still think it's kinda weird if I present a friend as the top OH-er around here and people ask him to do some solves, to which he replies: "oh, I need a table, please, otherwise I can't do it that fast".

 

[Olivér Perge]

But I still think it's kinda weird if I present a friend as the top OH-er around here and people ask him to do some solves, to which he replies: "oh, I need a table, please, otherwise I can't do it that fast".

It's not weird at all. Presenting your friend to non-cubers as the best OH-er around is weird. Or if it's not, than explaining that he needs table for that is OK too.

 

[Sebastien]

That's totally far from reality. Even if even top OH-Cubers use the surface sometimes to align the cube, it is foolish to assume that without doind this they would even loose half of a second in average.

 

[ErikJ]

That's totally far from reality. Even if even top OH-Cubers use the surface sometimes to align the cube, it is foolish to assume that without doind this they would even loose half of a second in average.

some people need to use the table to get decent times (roux solvers).


there are two ways that I have seen people use the table:

1. using the table to hold one side steady while turning other layers.

using the table to HOLD the one side of the cube steady while turning another layer is the same as holding it with two hands but only making turns with one. it's a little bit trickier but it has the same effect. it's a one handed event so let's keep it that way.


2. using the table to realign layers.

sometimes when you are in the middle of a solve, a layer or two may become out of alignment and require squaring off before you can continue solving (F and B slices are the most common and annoying to fix). so what they do is press the cube onto the table to flatten out the bottom side which TURNS the misaligned layers back into proper position. a lot of the really fast OH cubers do this and I think it's wrong. if you aren't good enough at turning with one hand to keep all of the layers aligned nicely then you don't deserve a fast time.

both methods of table use employ the table as an aid to help turn the cube. all we need is a rule that says something like "only the solving hand may be touching the cube while turns are being made".

 

[masterofthebass]

What about me? I use the table to help with rotations. I find it faster to drop on the table and pick it back up instead of tossing it around in my hand. I actually think this would be allowed under the old regulations, would it not?

 

[ErikJ]

What about me? I use the table to help with rotations. I find it faster to drop on the table and pick it back up instead of tossing it around in my hand. I actually think this would be allowed under the old regulations, would it not?

it would be very hard to make a rule against that since people drop the cube by accident all the time. how would the judge know if it was intentional or not?

as long as the table isn't helping solvers to turn the cube I'm happy.

 

[Radu]

The only "solution" would be the one I mentioned above...but that would be to harsh. Once the solve has started, the cube may not touch other surfaces hand and may not be dropped. Penalty: DNF.

 

[esquimalt1]

Incase someone hasn't said. The rule that no additional objects may be used as help, we have to say if ear plugs would be allowed or not especially for big bld attempts.

 

[PatrickJameson]

Incase someone hasn't said. The rule that no additional objects may be used as help, we have to say if ear plugs would be allowed or not especially for big bld attempts.

That's like saying people can't wear jackets since it would allow the competitor to stay warm and therefore do better. Any indirect help(help that does not physically turn the cube) is/should be allowed except if it enables you to "cheat". Cheating being anything from getting algorithms or communicating with someone else in order to better your solve. Could people still cheat with what appears to be noise cancelers? Sure. But we can't prevent everything. Nor should we try to.