PLL While Fixing Slots

[Solvador Cubi]

The shortest 2x2 PBL algs are the 3 with D-Layer corners that still need permuting (3 & 7 moves).
That got me thinking...

Has one documented how 3x3 PLL algs would be different (shorter?) if Corner-Edge pairs were put in "incorrect" slots during F2L?

for example:
instead of a J-Perm(a): y R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L (10 htm)
this shorter alg could be used to permute the LL while swapping FL and BR diagonal slots
y' R' U r' F2 R F' r (7 htm)


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi

 

[xyzzy]

The 5-move diag-N perm is cool too: L R U2 L' R'.

Overall, there are a few algs that are shorter, but the majority of them are worse/longer. On 2×2×2 you can align the D-layer corners during inspection, but this isn't the case here; you'll need to rotate to make sure that the F2L slots to permute are in the correct position, rather than just AUFing.

 

[Thom S.]

R U' F' U2 F U R' Nb, Adj Swap

I tried to Generate this exact set like two months ago but gave up after the EPLLs because I was unable to find a single good Algorithm for them. The two 5 move swap cases are good to know though.

If I find motivation I'll gen COLL plus Slot Permutation or OLL plus Slot Permutation and tell you if I find something useful.

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Thanks for your responses. Thom, you are definitely correct about EPLLs.

Yes xyzzy, after I posted this, I realized that corner perms are likely the ones that could be shorter.
Since I use diagonal slot setup for how I do a beginner-level roux, it pays off for those U corners.

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Does anyone know some algs (or a place to see some) for permutation of: CE pairs with U corners?
one could say, a type of PCBL but keeping the F2L pairs together.

For example, if CE pairs are correctly together, but not in the correct slots.
and U and D corner orientation is already done.

I know some for these 2 cases... if two CE pairs need to be swapped diagonally:
and Swap Front U Corners: R' U r' F2 R F' R
and Swap Diagonal U Corners: R2' F2 R2

I'm looking for algs for the cases that have a pair of adjacent columns correct and need to...
Swap Adjacent U Corners: ???
Swap Diagonal U Corners: ???
don't move any U Corners: ???

(I'm not concerned with U or D edges.)


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi

 

[Deleted member 36445]

R U l' U L U' R U2 L' U L U2 r' U' R'

 

[cubefactorx]

I have started compiling some algorithms for swapping diagonal pairs + last layer things. It is very incomplete:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ArMuoGCgIIYjypVyDTZuK0FgEKXFtNv18Li9nt7TWaY/edit?usp=sharing

As an aside, I've found that the traditional COLL alg set can be employed to force diagonal corners+ swap cases; the 4 being N1, N2, Y, V and typically very fast.

Best Regards,

RP

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Thanks guys! wow, cubefactorx, that is a detailed spreadsheet!
But I think your file has algs for cases I already know. (i.e. swapping the corner pairs diagonally during CPLL)
(also remember, I don't care about U or M edges, but want to preserve corner orientation)

Here's what I know so far:

When Diag CE pairs need swapped and U corners are...
Diag : R2' F2 R2
Adj : R' U r' F2 R F' R (Swap Front U Corners)
Solved: R2’ F2 R (U r' F2 R F')2 R (A combo of the 2 above)


When Adjacent CE pairs need swapped and U corners are...
Diag: R U' r' U R' U2 R U' r U R' (swaps RF and RB pairs)
Adj: ???
Solved: ???


-= Solvador Cubi

 

[cubefactorx]

I think with very specialized cases like this learning to use acube3 would be useful.

Download Acube here:
http://software.rubikscube.info/JACube/

GUI to generate required ACube input string:
https://www.ryanheise.com/cube/gacube.html

I am spotting you on this one, but some explanation of what method you are doing would be a kindness to satisfy my curiosity

You'll notice the outputs are raw and viewing the cases in question are at different angles. You'll have to optimize on your own here. When you get a handle on acube you'll notice feeding the same case at different looks can sometimes give different options to consider. I normally feed 4-8 different looks into acube so I have something to chew on.


"When Adjacent CE pairs need swapped and U corners are..."

Diag: R U' r' U R' U2 R U' r U R' (swaps RF and RB pairs)

Adj: ???
Acube String (swapping URF/URB corners, swapping RF/RB f2l pairs, ignoring permutation/orientation of UF,UR,UB,UL, DF, DB):
@? @? @? @? @? DR @? DL -BR FL -FR BL URB UFR UBL ULF DBR DFL DLB DRF

F U' F2 U L' B2 L U' F2 U F' [11/14]
B U' L F' U F' L2 B L B2 U2 [11/14]
U B U' L F' U F' L2 B L B2 U [12/14]
** B U' L F' U F' L2 B L B2 [10/12]
F' U L' B U' B L2 F' L' F2 U2 [11/14]
** F' U L' B U' B L2 F' L' F2 [10/12]

** removing U turns is an option if you can adjust how you recognize case

Solved: ???
Acube String (U Corners = solved && swapping RF/RB, ignoring permutation/orientation of UF,UR,UB,UL, DF, DB):
@? @? @? @? @? DR @? DL -BR FL -FR BL UFR URB UBL ULF DBR DFL DLB DRF
F D' F' R' D F2 B U' F2 R' B' R2 [12/15]
F' D F L D' F2 B' U F2 L B L2 [12/15]
B L' B2 R D R2 U R U' L U [11/13]
F R' F2 L D L2 U L U' R U [11/13]

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Thanks, I didn't know about acube, I'll start using it to look up algs for future cases that I think of.
I also saw that the wiki had a link to a JS version of it: https://cubing.net/ACube.js/

and thanks for your time plugging that in and posting the results, that helps me start to understand how to use it.

The method I was playing with was a "columns first" method, but with fewer algs (around 16):
4 CE pairs, orient U corners, permute U corners (with 2 CE pairs), centers, D edges, roux ending

I'll post when I conclude what I find useful.

 

[Solvador Cubi]

Well, I finished my research and I have mixed feelings about the results.

As I mentioned before, I was looking for a simple "columns first ... to 2-Look .. to Roux ending" type of method
I was looking to see what savings there could be by placing CE pairs in any column, then moving them later.
It doesn't seem like using fewer moves to do that, doesn't counter the hassle later.

The good: the algs for the 8 permutation cases (after corner orientation) are composed of only 3 core algs:
R2' F2 R2
R' U r' F2 R F' R
R d' R B2 R' d R'

... and how they can be used in combos in the 8 cases:

When Diag CE pairs need swapped and U corners are…
Diag : R2' F2 R2
Adj : R' U r' F2 R F' R (Swap Front U Corners)
Solved: R2’ F2 R (U r' F2 R F')2 R (A combo of the 2 above)

When Adjacent CE pairs need swapped and U corners are…
Diag: R d' R B2 R' d R' (swaps front pairs)
Adj: (R' U r' F2 R F') R2 (d' R B2 R' d R') (UB swap and Left pairs)
(R d' R B2 R' d) R2 (U r' F2 R F' R) (UR swap and Back pairs)
Solved: R2 B2 (R' d' R B2 R' d R) (swaps Back pairs)

When CE pairs are solved and U corners are…
Diag: R’ (U r' F2 R F')2 R
Adj: R2' F2 (R U r' F2 R F' R) (Swap Left U Corners)


The bad: the most common alg for adjacent pairs is long (13 moves)
and you'd have to keep track of where pairs ended up and probably do a cube rotation.
So the algs for diagonal CE pairs are best (and you might as well just do that from the beginning)

The Conclusion:
While the algs are easy to memorize, the savings at the start don't seem pay off later.
oh well.

-= Solvador Cubi

 

[kadabrium]

adjacent swap
u perm
U' R U2 F U' S R' y' M' D L' D R F2 L' F
z perm
F U R2 D R D' R F M' U L' U2 R U'
h perm
R U2 F' L D F' R' D' F2 R D2 R D2 R L2 U2 L U2

 

[Solvador Cubi]

I just couldn't leave alone the idea of using columns until I found something that I liked.
What I settled one doesn't have column permutation, but I incorporated algs like those above into an easy method of <55 moves!

Orient 12 Edges
Build the 4 Columns
Permute 8 Edges

I tested 25+ different variations of substeps and am excited about practicing this one.
You can see more info in my post on this other thread: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/which-method-should-i-learn-in-2019.72833/page-2

There's no new novelties here, just an assembly of known steps in a simple method.

-= Solvador Cubi