On Colour Neutrality, Roux method, and other matters...

[ZFR]

So I started cubing this January, learned the LBL + keyhole (got sub 60 secs then decided to move on), corners first and Heise, before I decided to try one of the speed methods described here in the guide on these forums:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ner-s-Guide-to-Choosing-a-Speedsolving-Method

As per the guide, I decided to give all methods a try. CFOP was good since I already learned LBL, but the only part I found fun was intuitive F2L, after that it seemed just learning algorithms (I have a good memory and don't mind learning the algorithms, but this method seemed to rely too much on them for me). I tried the remaining 3, and simply loved Roux. ZZ and Petrus were pretty nice too, but I think Roux is what I'll go with. It's fun and seems to me a good balance between algorithms and intuitive block-building. I'm a bit older so my aim is not really to get sub 10 secs. Getting 20-30 seems good enough.

Anyway, I have a few questions before I start:

_I didn't really understand the colour neutrality notation on the guide. What is <x2, y, z2> and <x, y2, z2>? Could anyone explain as if to a 5 year old child, with examples? Is it that with no colour neutrality you always stick with (example) white on right, yellow on left, blue front and red top. In <x2, y, z2> white is always on right and yellow on left, but blue can be on either top or bottom. In <x, y2, z2>, white can be either left or right, but blue always on top? Is this correct, or did I understand it wrong?

_I'd like to be colour neutral if possible. Is <x, y2, z2> a good choice, and are there any particularly good colour combinations I should stick with?

_Anything else I should keep in mind before starting Roux? Something I should keep in mind from the very beginning to avoid later disappointment?

Thanks! I see there is a huge thread on Roux already, but some of the discussions there are a bit too advanced for me at the moment.

 

[Berd]

I find that x2 y colour neatural is best and not too much effort.

 

[maps600]

Basically x2 y is recognised as a good colourneutrality. It basically means you can start with any two opposite colours on the bottom of your first block and any colour on the sides.

 

[Ross The Boss]

hmmm, writing colour neutrality like that is confusing me as well... i think that i am <Y X2> or <Y Z2> meaning i can solve in any orientation as long as it is white or yellow on the bottom. Having the third letter in there seems pretty redundant but thats ok. Many people are able to solve roux that way. However colour neutrality is really not important! If you have a fixed solving orientation you will just get really good at building blocks in that orientation (and doing the recognition for later steps). But if you want to be colour neutral, i suggest doing it so you can solve with either white or yellow on left, and any of the other four colours on the bottom. Why? Well if you believe me that colour neutrality is unimportant, the only remaining reason is that it looks cool. If you dont believe me, it is nice to have the option to start on yellow or white if need demands, and it is also nice to have more options for solving that block.

Here is a comment on your method choice; Dont sell CFOP so short! I say that it is a really fun method with all of the potential alg set add ons and accessories. The f2l can get really intense as far as creativity and intuitiveness is concerned and the melding together of steps is just wonderful in that method (cite the x-crosses and stuff). Of course unrestricted block building is way more fun, but such a method is not often practical.

EDIT: damnit, you guys are a bunch of ninjas XD

 

[maps600]

x y2 is also good, as ross was saying, as you become more familiar with different pairs in blockbuilding as well.
Colourneutrality does definitely give you an advantage and I suggest you stick with any orientation that allows 8 starting blocks.
Also, GuRoux wishes he was able to solve more than two starting blocks and I recommend you choose either eight possible starting blocks as it gives you the advantage of being able to use every pair on the cube but not suffering from poor recognition.

 

[Ross The Boss]

x y2 is also good, as ross was saying, as you become more familiar with different pairs in blockbuilding as well.
Colourneutrality does definitely give you an advantage and I suggest you stick with any orientation that allows 8 starting blocks.
Also, GuRoux wishes he was able to solve more than two starting blocks and I recommend you choose either eight possible starting blocks as it gives you the advantage of being able to use every pair on the cube but not suffering from poor recognition.

you can get 8 possible blocks by keeping only white or yellow on left. it seems like the more efficient way of doing so actually- instead of having two blocks for blue, two for green, two for orange, and two for red(like i do), you have four on white and four on yellow. easy peasy.

Off topic edit: it is nice to see a newer member such as yourself putting some effort into constructing a well worded post. doing so is not always convenient (which is why many of my posts are structurally lackluster at best), but taking the time to write well goes a long way in the minds of those who are able to help you. there are many times that i've been able to help somebody with an issue, but why should i work hard to help him if he doesnt even care enough to make his sentences understandable??
good on you, sir!

 

[DeeDubb]

you can get 8 possable blocks by keeping only white or yellow on left. it seems like the more efficient way of doing so actually- insted of having two blocks for blue, two for green, two for orange, and two for red(like i do), you have four on white and four on yellow. easy peasy.

with x y2, there are premade corner edge/center edge pairs that won't be usable (any of the four edges that don't include yellow or white with your x y2 blocks). With x2 y, you can use any premade corner edge, and you can only not use a center edge that includes the top or bottom center. The trade off being that with x2 y you can't expand a 2x2 in two different directions, you only get one option, while x y2, you can push a 2x2 into 2 different 3x2s.

 

[Ross The Boss]

with x y2, there are premade corner edge/center edge pairs that won't be usable (any of the four edges that don't include yellow or white with your x y2 blocks). With x2 y, you can use any premade corner edge, and you can only not use a center edge that includes the top or bottom center. The trade off being that with x2 y you can't expand a 2x2 in two different directions, you only get one option, while x y2, you can push a 2x2 into 2 different 3x2s.

personally, i think that's a pretty fair trade off considering the easier AUF at the end (something which i simply MUST stop messing up) and the easier recognition of UR and UL edges in step 4b. but ive already got my orientation hammered into me so those are ZFR's options to weigh.

 

[ZFR]

Thanks all. I heard colour neutrality is something you should start with from the very beginning since it's not that easy to learn it later once you get used to a given colour scheme, which is why I thought I'd ask about it before I start.

I think I'll take into account what you've written and try a them out for a few days each to see what suits me. To be honest I'm past the age where I can do this competitively, this is just for fun, so I'm happy to stick with just one colour orientation, even if being colour neutral means being slightly more efficient.

Here is a comment on your method choice; Dont sell CFOP so short! I say that it is a really fun method with all of the potential alg set add ons and accessories. The f2l can get really intense as far as creativity and intuitiveness is concerned and the melding together of steps is just wonderful in that method (cite the x-crosses and stuff). Of course unrestricted block building is way more fun, but such a method is not often practical.

I did like F2L in CFOP. In fact learning to do them intuitively helped me a lot with blockbuilding methods later on.

To be honest another reason I chose Roux over CFOP is because the latter is so... common. I think it would be cool to "show off" a different method. And those U and M moves towards the end on the Roux video recordings look really impressive.

 

[Smiles]

I learned roux on a fixed colour just to get used to it. then I switched to white/yellow on U and any of the other 4 colours on L/R. learning is much easier on a fixed colour scheme but if you think you're past that then ignore me lol

 

[Side4]

I would recommend just sticking to one block color and nor worry about being color neutral for now, especially since you are just starting off.

 

[Ross The Boss]

well if one has the goal of becoming colourneutral in any way, he should work toward that right from the beginning. it is such a waste of time to do it later. why not just start the race a little bit slower and not end up back tracking later, you know?

 

[ZFR]

Spent all of today practicing, I found easiest to keep white/yellow on left and right and any colour on top bottom ( I believe that's the x,y2,z2 variant?), so I think I'll go with this.

I'm doing 2 look top corner permutation/orientation (using my LBL algorithms). Before I switch to 1 look I want to practice my block building and look ahead. At the moment I still have to turn the cube around looking for the edge/corner and then sometimes for the second side it takes me several tries to get the 1x1x2 block right using only U,M,R,r.

Still it's pretty fun.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Spent all of today practicing, I found easiest to keep white/yellow on left and right and any colour on top bottom ( I believe that's the x,y2,z2 variant?), so I think I'll go with this.

I'm doing 2 look top corner permutation/orientation (using my LBL algorithms). Before I switch to 1 look I want to practice my block building and look ahead. At the moment I still have to turn the cube around looking for the edge/corner and then sometimes for the second side it takes me several tries to get the 1x1x2 block right using only U,M,R,r.

Still it's pretty fun.

Im pretty sure this is (x, y2)

 

[TDM]

Im pretty sure this is (x, y2)

It could be described as either x/y2 or x/z2, or x/y2/z2 if you want.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

It could be described as either x/y2 or x/z2, or x/y2/z2 if you want.

Thats true too...