Older cubers discussions

Does anybody know what Feliks uses for 4x4 (I've heard that from 5x5 and up he uses reduction)?

I believe he uses Yau on 4x4 and freeslice/reduction on bigger cubes, but then, everyone just freeslices in big cubes. However, I think that he is considering Yau5 for it but idk whether that's true or not though I'm sure he has tried it at one point or another
 
I believe he uses Yau on 4x4 and freeslice/reduction on bigger cubes, but then, everyone just freeslices in big cubes. However, I think that he is considering Yau5 for it but idk whether that's true or not though I'm sure he has tried it at one point or another
He tried it with Rob Yau at worlds and apparently he averages sub 1. He's so fast at reduction tho.
 
It's curious that all of you recommend to change events and I was thinking that maybe the cause of my dip in 3x3 performance was the time I have been devoting to 2x2 lately that obviously detracts from 3x3 practice time. Others in the forum have advised me that, at our age, we cannot pretend to be fast at all events and, hence, I should focus on 3x3 and forget completely about 2x2, 4x4... but that's not fun at all as 3x3 then becomes more of a job than an enjoyment.
Getting stuck with improvement like that is not nice. I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle that has to be broken somehow. To improve, you need focused deliberate practice. To do that you need motivation. Motivation is fueled by a sense of accomplishment, which in cubing would come from seeing your times drop. So when times don't drop anymore, you don't get that sense of accomplishment, which takes away motivation and makes it harder to do focused practice, and without that you can't improve. In the end this only leads to frustration. This is where taking a break and focusing on another event helps. By doing something where you can improve easily and get that feeling of accomplishment, you get back the motivation and tell your brain again that this is something fun that we want to focus fully on.

If you don't want to switch events, you could also try something else with the 3x3. Do the race to sub-30 with ZZ or something like that. The method seems like a lot of fun, and you might pick up some goodies for CFOP solves as well from the rotationless F2L and edge orienting.

I tried some ZZ yesterday. First ao12 barely under a minute, mostly because the EOLine was messed up in several solves. When I got easy EOLines, I had a couple of solves in the 42-43 second range. Not too far from my regular solve times (latest Ao100 was 38.xx). But I also realized that if I want to learn ZZ, I really have to learn PLL. It's not compatible at all with my current last layer. On the other hand, this is a good reason for me to learn PLL, so I just might go ahead and do it.
 
Thanks, Raúl. It's curious that all of you recommend to change events and I was thinking that maybe the cause of my dip in 3x3 performance was the time I have been devoting to 2x2 lately that obviously detracts from 3x3 practice time. Others in the forum have advised me that, at our age, we cannot pretend to be fast at all events and, hence, I should focus on 3x3 and forget completely about 2x2, 4x4... but that's not fun at all as 3x3 then becomes more of a job than an enjoyment.

What I've observed is that lately my TPS is slower, maybe the forced slow turning during F2L to try and build my lookahead is contagious and I don't turn as fast as I used to during LL. Maybe it's just that the whole concept of lookahead needs to sink in until I can start to turn a bit faster. I have realized that my fast times up to now where the result of high TPS and "lucky pair spotting" (like when the pairs keep coming up for you to spot them and you think, wow! great lookahead this solve but the truth is that you didn't find them, they found you, if you know what I mean).

Regarding Yau, I started solving 4x4 with reduction and soon changed to Yau. I'm so slow yet with either of them that I cannot certainly tell but dedge pairing lookahead with pure reduction was a nightmare for me and with Yau it is much, much better. Maybe people with great lookahead can benefit from improved efficiency with reduction. Does anybody know what Feliks uses for 4x4 (I've heard that from 5x5 and up he uses reduction)?

And, lots of luck with your 7x7 and 3BLD practice over the holidays. I'm sure you will be able to shave those 2 minutes and more off your 7x7 times. Happy Chri...., I mean, happy cubing :)

It can be very frustrating to be on a plateau for a long time or even regress. Trust me this is something I have a lot of experience with. Whilst I am faster than average for my age at a global average of sub 16.5 at 46 years old, this has taken a LOT of practice and work. Oh when I said a LOT I meant a LOT! :) I was sub 19 4 years ago :)

For me the first single recommendation I could make is to read this post by a UK cuber called Rowan Kinneavy. The post may be 4 1/2 years old now but is still as strong today as it has ever been:-

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27870-How-to-practice

Ok, now my 2 cents for what its worth. Practice that consists of just a number of complete solves may work for some but it will not work for all and I put myself in this category. I can do an Ao100 a day and not get any improvement in months. Why? I firmly believe we reach a stage where our solves are more sub conscious than conscious. More reaction than thinking. If at some stage we make a mistake or do not optimise something then we then start repeating these mistakes automatically and we can end up doing 100 solves in a row, all with the same reasons why they are not sub "insert your goal here". There may be some fundamental issues you have which are really easy to address but you are just repeating them and reinforcing them over and over again.

For me the first step is to understand yourself what your weak points are. For this I highly recommend filming some solves and trying to be very critical about your own solves. If you dont have a tripod ask someone to assist you. Look at solves of those who are faster or those you aspire to solve like and try and find the differences between these and the videos of your own solves. I like to watch similar aged solvers, my inspiration comes from Ron Van Bruchem. I like to watch guys on this thread who are of a similar age. I will also conversely watch solves by Breandan Vallance, Rob Yau, Faz etc etc (albeit slow motion). There is something to learn from them all, even at my turn speed.

Is your cross to F2L transition really slow? Is you second roux block slow? Is your F2L turn speed fast but with lots of pauses? Are you using lot of AUFs for recognition of LL algs? Are you getting a lot of lockups? There are almost an infinite number of these question you can be asking yourself.

Once you have your list of "problem" areas and for assistance and transparency I will share my current worst bad points with you with you:-

  • Cross - Slow cross to F2L transition and I miss easy X-Cross cases
  • My turn speed could be faster even at my age
  • I still have a lot of pauses in F2L which I would like to eliminate
  • I need to learn 2 face PLL recognition
  • I need to hold the cube less tightly when solving
  • I need to give concentrated ppractice to algs with D or D' in them which I have most difficulty with
  • I need to drill my algorithms more often
  • I need to minimise cube rotations even more in F2L stage

The next bit is actual easy, research or practice ways to improve on your worst points in your solves. Do concentrated sessions on these. So for me today I might do an Ao100 or if pressed for time I might do an Ao12 but I will do 15 minutes drilling G perms and find a new alg for an F2L case where I currently rotate. Ideally tomorrow I will do something else.

Keep reassessing your solves. If the practice is working then the weak point may become stronger and you will have new weak points to address.

Even in full practices mix it up a bit. I like to do an Ao12 very very slow, then an Ao12 as fast as my hands will go, then a usual speed average. Even the change of speed pulls you out of that automated solving mode.

It is my honest opinion that this targeted practice not only obviously concentrates your time and effort in the part of the solve that need it but it also gives you time practicing that is not sub conscious, that makes you think rather than just repeating solves.

Hope this helps in some way and good luck :)

P.S.: Another vote for Yau here on 4x4. I started with reduction and got down to probably about 1:40 quite a few years ago. I now average globally about 1:10 with Yau. I might try Yau on 5 as my 5 times are not great. Another very good alternative for 5 is AVG and I was lucky enough to spend some time with Arnaud Van Galen a few years ago discussing his method at a comp. Worth a look, especially with age with a lower move count but does require a lot of lookahead for maximum results.
 
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Getting stuck with improvement like that is not nice. I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle that has to be broken somehow. To improve, you need focused deliberate practice. To do that you need motivation. Motivation is fueled by a sense of accomplishment, [...]

If you don't want to switch events, you could also try something else with the 3x3. Do the race to sub-30 with ZZ or something like that. The method seems like a lot of fun, [...]

But I also realized that if I want to learn ZZ, I really have to learn PLL. It's not compatible at all with my current last layer. On the other hand, this is a good reason for me to learn PLL, so I just might go ahead and do it.

Thanks! It's surely a good idea. In fact I learned Roux and ZZ like 6 months ago but I never gave any of the methods enough time to really sink in. I might try them again. EOLine is a nightmare at first, though :) And I would absolutely recommend you learn PLL.

It can be very frustrating to be on a plateau for a long time or even regress. [...]

Ok, now my 2 cents for what its worth. Practice that consists of just a number of complete solves may work for some but it will not work for all and I put myself in this category. [...]

It is my honest opinion that this targeted practice not only obviously concentrates your time and effort in the part of the solve that need it but it also gives you time practicing that is not sub conscious, that makes you think rather than just repeating solves.

Hope this helps in some way and good luck :)

Thanks a lot for this superb piece of advice. I have been doing just timed Ao100s on autopilot for too long already. I need to really concentrate in the things I do wrong, which are soooo many. I cannot give up just because after the first week or so practicing slow solves and lookahead the expected results are not coming.
 
Came here to cry as I don't think anybody will care in any of the other threads.

I have been cubing for almost 4 years. The first two years progress came naturally with practice. And after that it seemed like one big plateau. But in real I have gained a lot of tricks in F2L, changed an OLL of PLL here and there, learned to be better at Color neutral solving etc etc. I think it took me 1.5 years to come from 20 secs average to sub 20 average. But now I truly can say I am sub 20 (with highlight a 17.xx Ao12 on camera :) ). Achieving my first sub 20 official has made me relax a bit and take a break from cubing. I think I did up untill that time at least 50 - 100 timed solves per day.. When I start again I might pick up other events or change main method.. LOL just to keep it fun..
 
Thanks! It's surely a good idea. In fact I learned Roux and ZZ like 6 months ago but I never gave any of the methods enough time to really sink in. I might try them again. EOLine is a nightmare at first, though :) And I would absolutely recommend you learn PLL.
Yes, the EOLine requires work. But it isn't that bad. At least I find it easier to work out solution for the EOLine now than it was to find solution for the cross when I first started cubing. This gives me hope that it should be possible to learn it well. :)

I did another 50 ZZ solves and now I'm thinking seriously about switching. The CPEOLL method I worked out before looking online for tips is unfortunately a dead end. To go from 3lll to 2lll requires 80 algs, which is too much at this point. But switching to CFOP and learning full PLL to go from one 3lll to another 3lll isn't very tempting either. With ZZ I could learn PLL and get a 2lll with a very easy first step. That sounds a lot better! After that I can consider going back to CFOP and learn OLL.

I'll probably try to finish the race to sub-30 with my current method before switching completely. In the meantime try to learn rotationless F2L better, should help with all solves regardless of method. I noticed that I do a lot of unnecessary moves at that stage. Up until now I've probably been rotating the cube way too much during F2L.
 
Yes, the EOLine requires work. But it isn't that bad. At least I find it easier to work out solution for the EOLine now than it was to find solution for the cross when I first started cubing. This gives me hope that it should be possible to learn it well. :)

I did another 50 ZZ solves and now I'm thinking seriously about switching. The CPEOLL method I worked out before looking online for tips is unfortunately a dead end. To go from 3lll to 2lll requires 80 algs, which is too much at this point. But switching to CFOP and learning full PLL to go from one 3lll to another 3lll isn't very tempting either. With ZZ I could learn PLL and get a 2lll with a very easy first step. That sounds a lot better! After that I can consider going back to CFOP and learn OLL.

I'll probably try to finish the race to sub-30 with my current method before switching completely. In the meantime try to learn rotationless F2L better, should help with all solves regardless of method. I noticed that I do a lot of unnecessary moves at that stage. Up until now I've probably been rotating the cube way too much during F2L.

Yeah, that's what I like about ZZ as well. Right now you can have a 2LLL with just 28 algs or so but not only that, you can also start adding some COLL here and there and maybe even some ZBLL and you know that you'll be able to use them every solve because the edges are going to be oriented. It also happens to avoid what I hate most of CFOP, rotations during F2L or the need to learn lots of tricks/algs to avoid rotations. The rotationless part is something I also like about Roux.
 
4x4 centers done in less time than full 4x4 single and ao5 WR, sooner than I thought it would take me ("only" 2 or 3 hours). But I was lucky, I'm averaging like 30 seconds or so, using Pochmann method, starting with white or yellow. It's fun improving at something :)

30.44, 14.21, 29.67, 21.47, 26.37


I'll practice some more and then I'll try to learn new edge pairing methods.

Will improve much if I lube the cube (it's a Yusu)? I've seen a few videos and it seems a lot of work, I'm not sure if I want to...
 
Yeah, that's what I like about ZZ as well. Right now you can have a 2LLL with just 28 algs or so but not only that, you can also start adding some COLL here and there and maybe even some ZBLL and you know that you'll be able to use them every solve because the edges are going to be oriented.
My thinking exactly. ZZ would open up so many options to go forward. There's also WV, MGLS and other possibilities. And I could keep using the 2gll algs I already know. Especially the T cases are very easy to recognize. I can immediately tell if the corners are correctly permuted or not when those come up, and I know the 12 algs very well by now. I just realized the Pi cases also are easy to distinguish if corner permutation is correct, so those I can also keep using. Maybe still learn the H cases, as those are few and the easiest, and also easy to see when corners are permutated.
 
I was questioning myself after muchacho's post how where my center solving times like and just decided to time a couple of averages

5x5 centers

Best average of 5: 54.58
1-5 - 1:00.21 53.18 (43.42) 50.35 (1:01.82)

centros 5x5
15-dic-2015 19:02:04 - 19:11:10

Mean: 53.80
Average: 54.58
Best time: 43.42
Median: 53.18
Worst time: 1:01.82
Standard deviation: 6.71



1. 1:00.21 B D2 R2 B' R Uw L2 Lw' D2 Lw2 Fw2 Bw' B' L2 Fw D2 B U2 F' L2 Rw2 Fw2 Uw2 Rw Fw2 Bw' Rw2 B2 Uw' Lw2 F L Dw R2 F' B Uw2 Rw R' U2 Uw D' B2 R2 Dw Bw' U' L' Rw2 Uw Bw2 B2 L U2 Uw' Dw' Bw' D R F2
2. 53.18 Rw U Uw2 Dw B Lw' Uw2 B D' Rw2 R2 Fw U F' Fw' U L2 R2 F2 Dw2 F2 U' Uw' Lw' Uw2 F D Rw2 Uw F' Lw' F' Lw Rw' R F U2 D2 F Fw B D' F' B' L Lw2 Bw Lw2 Rw' Fw' B D F' Uw' F2 Rw2 Uw2 L' Dw F
3. 43.42 Fw' U' Dw' Fw Uw2 Bw Rw R2 B2 Uw' Fw' Bw2 B2 Rw Fw B2 L' Rw' B' U Bw2 U' Lw2 F Bw2 B' Lw2 F2 Dw D Lw2 R Bw D' F B2 U2 Bw2 L Fw2 L' Uw' F B' L Dw B Uw2 L' Lw2 Fw Uw Fw Rw' R2 Fw2 Bw2 R2 Dw' F'
4. 50.35 U' F L2 D2 Rw2 D Bw2 U' B U2 B D' Fw2 B2 D2 F D2 Fw2 Rw' R Uw2 Rw2 U2 L' F2 Fw' Bw' U Rw' U2 Lw Rw' R2 Dw D2 B U D Bw B Uw' Rw2 R2 Uw2 R F Lw' U Uw R Dw Lw' F Bw' B2 R F' Fw2 B2 R2
5. 1:01.82 U' Rw R Uw R2 U2 Lw Rw2 F2 R' Fw2 L' Lw F Bw L R2 D F' Lw Rw2 D' Bw2 Uw2 Dw' Bw' Rw2 Bw2 Uw2 D' Rw2 R Uw Fw Dw2 F2 Fw Uw2 F Rw2 Bw Dw' B2 L2 Rw2 F2 Fw' D2 R2 Dw2 B L Lw' U' D2 Rw' F2 L2 Lw' Bw2

4x4 centers

Best average of 5: 19.00
1-5 - (16.99) 17.79 18.68 20.54 (20.66)
centros 4x4
15-dic-2015 19:16:12 - 19:20:45

Mean: 18.93
Average: 19.00
Best time: 16.99
Median: 18.68
Worst time: 20.66
Standard deviation: 1.46


1. 16.99 B D' R' D2 R2 Fw Rw' D L' Uw2 D Fw U2 F Fw2 B' Rw Uw B2 U F2 Uw' L D' L Rw U' D' L R2 Fw' B' U2 R' B U Rw2 D' Rw D'
2. 17.79 L D Fw B L U' Rw' B' R Uw B2 Rw2 R Uw L Rw R' U' L2 Uw' D Rw2 U Fw2 L Uw' B' L2 Uw2 D' R2 B' Rw' F Fw U2 D' Fw D' Fw
3. 18.68 L' Rw2 B2 Uw2 D2 Rw' D' F2 D2 R2 Uw Rw2 F' Uw R Uw' R D' F2 L' R F2 R' B' D' B' Rw2 U2 D2 L2 U Fw' B' U2 F' Uw F D' F' B
4. 20.54 U Uw' R' F L' Rw2 B' Rw2 D' L2 B2 R U2 F' Fw D2 L R U' D2 Rw2 R2 Uw R B Rw' R F2 U2 R' U2 B' L2 B Rw B Uw L' R D2
5. 20.66 Rw2 U R' Fw D F' U2 D2 Fw' D' Fw2 D' B2 R2 Uw' Fw' Rw' U2 F U' Uw' Rw2 R2 Fw Rw' F R' F' L' Fw2 R Fw' U2 Uw R' D2 B2 R' U2 D2

I thought I was faster at 5x5 and slower at 4x4, I might try to do it yau style (centers + cross) later to see the difference

I'm going to do a couple of 7x7 now and will try to look at the timer when I finish the centers, I'll be right back
 
Really interesting discussions re stages and particularly centres. Think I will film an Ao12 and look at the splits for F2C, Centres complete and edge pairing (Yau).

Now where did I put my tripod....


:)
 
Talking about practice - for a week I do slow solves and i did today ao50 21.51 - I'm quite happy because they were slow and had no to so many pauses as usual. And I got two 16's during it and couple 17's... It really pays off.
 
Talking about practice - for a week I do slow solves and i did today ao50 21.51 - I'm quite happy because they were slow and had no to so many pauses as usual. And I got two 16's during it and couple 17's... It really pays off.

Great stuff, it does pay off in the end! It took me a few attempts to do the sub 19 slow turning throughout video I did and on one attempt I got a 14.x with super slow all the way though. Couldn't believe it. Keep it up.

For info any practice for me today is in the theme "As fast as my old hands can manage and hold onto lookahead for dear life" :)

I just did my 2 7x7 solves, first one 5:25 centers, then pop and ended being a 11:08 and second one did centers in 5:04 and ended being an 8:55.66 PB, yay!

Very good times, I really mist put some practice into 6x6 and 7x7

I've been wanting to get a sub 20 solve on camera, so I've been filming a bit more lately. I've still only had 6, but I had a 19 both Saturday and Sunday when I was not filming. :)

Still haven't caught it, but here is a good for me ao5 I got tonight.

https://youtu.be/lmCQF6Svx04

Oh so, so close! You'll get there really soon. It may just be me but these solves look so much more fluid than those you posted last week. A lot less pauses :)

I have been cubing for almost 4 years. The first two years progress came naturally with practice. And after that it seemed like one big plateau. But in real I have gained a lot of tricks in F2L, changed an OLL of PLL here and there, learned to be better at Color neutral solving etc etc. I think it took me 1.5 years to come from 20 secs average to sub 20 average. But now I truly can say I am sub 20 (with highlight a 17.xx Ao12 on camera :) ). Achieving my first sub 20 official has made me relax a bit and take a break from cubing. I think I did up untill that time at least 50 - 100 timed solves per day.. When I start again I might pick up other events or change main method.. LOL just to keep it fun..

A break can actually be a great improver. taken a few breaks over the last 5 years and have not really suffered from any of them. Congratulations on being sub-20, I know how long you have practiced for and the effort you have put in. Great achievement. Wan't to race to sub 15 ;)
 
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