Of stackmats and smartphones

[jfly]

Here it is:
View attachment 4517

Thanks! http://www.jflei.com/stackmat-phones/ updated in https://github.com/jfly/jfly.github.io/commit/9aa0a56107df5e7ab7690a53ccd9f43cd85eac00. That is one nice signal, good find =)

 

[primarycuber]

Drumroll

 

[suushiemaniac]

Bump.

I recently thought about using a Raspberry Pi or Arduino to achieve similar results instead of using phones.
A Pi is approximately the same price range as a cheap Android phone, it would require no custom soldered board to transform the Stackmat signal and is equally versatile and programmable as an Android phone.
Thoughts?

 

[jfly]

Bump.

I recently thought about using a Raspberry Pi or Arduino to achieve similar results instead of using phones.
A Pi is approximately the same price range as a cheap Android phone, it would require no custom soldered board to transform the Stackmat signal and is equally versatile and programmable as an Android phone.
Thoughts?

I don't think a pi or arduino is the way to go here. These devices don't have batteries, don't have any form of keyboard/screen, don't do wifi, and don't have a case. I'm sure there are addons that make all of these things possible, but also push the price way up. For what you're getting, cheap phones are an amazing deal.

Quick update: one year later, I have been pulled into WCA website work, but am hoping to a run a competition this year with smartphones supplementing scorecards. I'll be sure to send out an update if it does happen.

 

[suushiemaniac]

I get your point, thanks for the fast feedback Here's what I think about it:

These devices don't have batteries

In fact, you can run these things on plain AA batteries, instead of having a rechargeable internal battery as with smartphones. This makes things easier when the battery is empty: Instead of having to plug in a charger (which requires a plug often not present close to the actual timing stations) you simply swap out batteries and you're good to go.

don't have any form of keyboard/screen

Good point. However, is a screen really necessary? Although the idea is very cool and I don't want to downplay your hard work at all, the user interaction with these devices at competitions is quite simple. So why not use cheap control LEDs and maybe transmit log files to a nearby workstation using the same connection that also transmits the actual results when things go terribly wrong?

don't do wifi

Indeed. But addons exist and you could maybe use bluetooth if it turns out to be cheaper...

and don't have a case

Is a case necessary? People who can bring order to the chaos of a Rubiks Cube should be able to properly treat a piece of hardware, when told so.

I'm sure there are addons that make all of these things possible, but also push the price way up. For what you're getting, cheap phones are an amazing deal.

The price tag probably is the best quick argument you can give. It indeed pushes the price up about $20 judging by a short amazon search I did. Question is if there are any actual advantages that outweigh the additional cash spent... Or if smartphones turn out to have a major flaw that makes them inappropriate for this usage. Time and tests will show

All in all I'm not against smartphones at all. I was just trying to maybe show up an alternative, not to overthrow the current system. I'm still astonished by all the hard work and thoughts that have gone into this project so far

Quick update: one year later, I have been pulled into WCA website work, but am hoping to a run a competition this year with smartphones supplementing scorecards. I'll be sure to send out an update if it does happen.

Sweet! TheCubicle.us stated something about a "new timer technology" being unveiled at US Nats on their website, but my post in the relevant thread was pretty much ignored when the competition took place. Was that your idea they showed off? If so, how did it turn out?

 

[jfly]

In fact, you can run these things on plain AA batteries, instead of having a rechargeable internal battery as with smartphones. This makes things easier when the battery is empty: Instead of having to plug in a charger (which requires a plug often not present close to the actual timing stations) you simply swap out batteries and you're good to go.

Oh, nice! Batteries would certainly be better, but this does go back to my point about needing a case =).

Good point. However, is a screen really necessary? Although the idea is very cool and I don't want to downplay your hard work at all, the user interaction with these devices at competitions is quite simple. So why not use cheap control LEDs and maybe transmit log files to a nearby workstation using the same connection that also transmits the actual results when things go terribly wrong?

IMO, a touchscreen is pretty key: I want judges to be able to enter times by hand if the stackmat connection isn't working. I was imagining the smartphone could double as a stopwatch (a la http://www.cubing.net/inspection/). Other stuff I forgot: RFID reader and/or camera for identifying competitors. An onscreen keyboard for entering names is also a nice fallback if RFID/QR code doesn't work.

Indeed. But addons exist and you could maybe use bluetooth if it turns out to be cheaper...

I believe the range we're talking about, bluetooth wouldn't be great. To be honest, our experience with the wifi at US Nationals this summer was really depressing: I do not believe we could not have run the competition with it. It's not that the internet connection to the outside world was a problem, it was just that the room was just completely flooded with wireless signals. I don't know if bringing our own router would have helped, or just made the situation even worse.

Is a case necessary? People who can bring order to the chaos of a Rubiks Cube should be able to properly treat a piece of hardware, when told so.

With addons and battery case, I do think a proper enclosure would be necessary.

Time and tests will show

All in all I'm not against smartphones at all. I was just trying to maybe show up an alternative, not to overthrow the current system. I'm still astonished by all the hard work and thoughts that have gone into this project so far

Agreed. We need to actually build some stuff and see how it works at real competitions. If you're interested in pursuing any of these ideas, let me know, we could definitely use more help!

Sweet! TheCubicle.us stated something about a "new timer technology" being unveiled at US Nats on their website, but my post in the relevant thread was pretty much ignored when the competition took place. Was that your idea they showed off? If so, how did it turn out?

Unrelated to this project, but it was really awesome to see how it spread through the grapevine. AFAIK, they never did demo anything at US Nationals.

 

[suushiemaniac]

IMO, a touchscreen is pretty key: I want judges to be able to enter times by hand if the stackmat connection isn't working. I was imagining the smartphone could double as a stopwatch (a la http://www.cubing.net/inspection/). Other stuff I forgot: RFID reader and/or camera for identifying competitors. An onscreen keyboard for entering names is also a nice fallback if RFID/QR code doesn't work.

Well the confirmation thing is a great idea, maybe use NFC tags? Similar to http://www.amazon.de/Tags-Sticker-NTAG213-Circus-168Byte/dp/B00BTKAI7U (sorry it's German amazon, but I think you will find similar things on amazon.com)
Easily programmable and re-programmable, maybe so that in addition to Comp preparations like printing the schedule also doing a NFC tag programming session with an automated app for the delegates/organizers?

I believe the range we're talking about, bluetooth wouldn't be great. To be honest, our experience with the wifi at US Nationals this summer was really depressing: I do not believe we could not have run the competition with it. It's not that the internet connection to the outside world was a problem, it was just that the room was just completely flooded with wireless signals. I don't know if bringing our own router would have helped, or just made the situation even worse.

Signal range is surely something to consider here. Maybe sending Wi-Fi on different frequency bands would help? But please don't ask me about any details as I don't know any :/

With addons and battery case, I do think a proper enclosure would be necessary.

Agreed.

Agreed. We need to actually build some stuff and see how it works at real competitions. If you're interested in pursuing any of these ideas, let me know, we could definitely use more help!

I don't have access to either a Pi or an Arduino. The idea actually came from a friend of mine who isn't much into Cubing apart from being able to solve a 3x3 in ~2 minutes. He would never go to competitions and I finished school two months ago so I don't have access to his hardware any more.
What I do have to offer however is some Android application programming basics and a very solid Java knowledge and experience, although not on a professional level... Don't know if you could need another software guy...

Unrelated to this project, but it was really awesome to see how it spread through the grapevine. AFAIK, they never did demo anything at US Nationals.

An official announcement on their website is not quite my definition of "through the grapevine", but it's nice to have an official word on this issue

 

[jfly]

Well the confirmation thing is a great idea, maybe use NFC tags? Similar to http://www.amazon.de/Tags-Sticker-NTAG213-Circus-168Byte/dp/B00BTKAI7U (sorry it's German amazon, but I think you will find similar things on amazon.com)
Easily programmable and re-programmable, maybe so that in addition to Comp preparations like printing the schedule also doing a NFC tag programming session with an automated app for the delegates/organizers?

I think NFC is potentially a very good route for us to take. Taking things to the logical extreme, I'd love to have a WCA id card =)

What I do have to offer however is some Android application programming basics and a very solid Java knowledge and experience, although not on a professional level... Don't know if you could need another software guy...

If you're interested, we'd love software help! Shoot me an email (you can find my email over on https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/delegates), and I'll put you in touch with Patricia, who's doing the Android work.

An official announcement on their website is not quite my definition of "through the grapevine", but it's nice to have an official word on this issue

Oh, I meant that it was neat to hear that there were rumors that this announcement was a stackmat integration system.

 

[suushiemaniac]

Sorry for the late reply, I was on the move for some days and then became ill afterwards...

I think NFC is potentially a very good route for us to take. Taking things to the logical extreme, I'd love to have a WCA id card =)

At the logical extreme, yes. But practically no. I think you can't force every competitor to have such a card created for him. And to bring it to every competition. What happens if someone forgets his/her card at home? Who pays for these cards? Etc.

If you're interested, we'd love software help! Shoot me an email (you can find my email over on https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/delegates), and I'll put you in touch with Patricia, who's doing the Android work.

Consider it done

Oh, I meant that it was neat to hear that there were rumors that this announcement was a stackmat integration system.

TheCubicle will be unveiling some new cubing technology at this year's Nats, including a snazzy new timer and other cool applications.

I thought this was about you...

 

[biscuit]

I don't know if there is anyway I can help on the arduino side without a stack mat, but I'm willing to offer the services of the arduino. I only have some basic stuff (a small bread board, connector wires, a couple of buttons/switchs, LEDS) but if you want to pursue that idea we can try to make something work.

 

[jfly]

Hey Biscuit,

Thanks for the offer, but I'm pretty set on pursuing things with smartphones for now. If you're interested in exploring the arduino side of things and have any questions, feel free to shoot me an email, and we can talk!

 

[Awesomeroks]

Why didnt I see this before? I have been trying to do something similar for a long time now. I'm trying to make a timer sort of thing which behaves like a stackmat. I have got my arduino to interface with any android phone,and store times. The timing device is the arduino itself.

 

[mark49152]

KingEn timer on Android has a nice feature called pull to start, drop to stop, where the phone picks up vibrations from hands on the table. So you can just use your table like a Stackmat.

KingEn is no longer in the store but can be found on download sites. Do any other phone timers do this? It's neater than having a bunch of extra electronics attached to the phone.

 

[Me]

Do any other phone timers do this? It's neater than having a bunch of extra electronics attached to the phone.

Most (if not all?) timers for iOS or Android have this capability. I think having a stackmat connected to a phone is cooler though.

 

[biscuit]

KingEn timer on Android has a nice feature called pull to start, drop to stop, where the phone picks up vibrations from hands on the table. So you can just use your table like a Stackmat.

KingEn is no longer in the store but can be found on download sites. Do any other phone timers do this? It's neater than having a bunch of extra electronics attached to the phone.

The point of this project is to make results nearly instant in competitions.