New notation for slice moves?

[Lucas Garron]

I think it could work. I would say just redefine M and E, but then all the algs and reconstructions from the past are thrown off. I just tried thinking of a letter to replace it, and v came to mind (for vertical), but then it might be confused for U. C came to mind as well (for center), but that just doesn't look good.

Anybody have a proposal for new notation (the letters)?

Personally, I think N instead of M' is nice, because it's suggestively familiar.
Spoken algs with M/M' moves might have a funky transition period, but I feel like most people stick to M2 or showing people directly, partly because the direction is unintuitive right now.

I don't really see why E should go the other way; unlike M, the directions are symmetric with respect to the hands. Also, E turns the direction of the Earth's equator if north is up.

What if we try it?
N2 U N2 U N U2 N2 U2 N

 

[Ultimate Cuber]

The most powerful country in the world never switched.

USA = WCA

Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen with cubing as it did with the measurement system.

 

[Lucas Garron]

USA = WCA

Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen with cubing as it did with the measurement system.

The WCA doesn't specify any slice notation.
I also think we need a stronger movement than "hope".

 

[Ultimate Cuber]

The WCA doesn't specify any slice notation.
I also think we need a stronger movement than "hope".

Good post. If we could settle on a new notation for the slice moves and get anough attention we'll make it happen. I've got to go to bed but tomorrow I'll put some serious thought into what we might could use as a new notation system for slice moves.

 

[cubernya]

Personally, I think N instead of M' is nice, because it's suggestively familiar.
Spoken algs with M/M' moves might have a funky transition period, but I feel like most people stick to M2 or showing people directly, partly because the direction is unintuitive right now.

I don't really see why E should go the other way; unlike M, the directions are symmetric with respect to the hands. Also, E turns the direction of the Earth's equator if north is up.

What if we try it?
N2 U N2 U N U2 N2 U2 N

For E, I personally use my right hand for E2, which is why I proposed the change for E, but that is probably because I am more a lefty in that sense. For M/N, I do mot see why we cannot change this (I was just going to ask about alg.cubing.net before I saw this). I definitely like the N notation, but it will take some getting used to (obviously)

 

[kubisto]

I'm in full support of a new notation, one that makes more sense. Something more "unified".

 

[UB]

New Notations FTW!
It is really confusing with this notation! M and E are wrongly done (in coordination)

 

[MadeToReply]

Just go with the flow.

 

[tx789]

Notation is fine in opinion, the worst part is slice moves. But they're not that bad the names M, E and S are fine. M follows L. How does that make it backwards? There isn't a need of a change. E and S are rarely used. I never do E turns and only use S for 2 OLLs. The N idea isn't bad those. I'm not against it just think it's unneeded. M is for middle isn't it. So N instead of M' doesn't make sense. If they followed cube rotations that would make a it more sense. But changing could cause issues but could be done.



Edit it only M that doesn't follow rotations. That they only issue I see with the current notation.

 

[Lucas Garron]

But they're not that bad the names M, E and S are fine. M follows L. How does that make it backwards? There isn't a need of a change. E and S are rarely used.

Because most speedcubers can execute M' more easily, and therefore it is more preferential to use M' moves instead of M moves where possible (e.g. (M' U)4 instead of (M U)4).
There are quite a few algs that use the M slice.

The extra ' adds to the visual clutter, and requires an extra syllable when speaking out loud. This is not especially bad, but it would have been nice to make the more common direction the "regular" one.

Most algs are also written with M2 where the intended execution is M2'. It would be nice if the obvious way to write a double turn of the middle slice is the way most cubers will execute it.

The mismatch with the rotations is a bit annoying, but I personally have less of a problem with that because I'm so familiar with the notation.

Anyone else got other reasons?

 

[tx789]

I personally have less of a problem with that because I'm so familiar with the notation.

That's why I a see no need to change it. I'm familiar with notation. A change is hard to impediment because of this reason. Then it can create inconsistencies which further confuses people. One problem with using N for M' is how N sound very similar to M. I see no reason
why N could be used for M'. Wide turns have two ways of writing them. Lw and l for example, the former is less common unless you look at a lot of FMC solutions.

 

[Logiqx]

I thought it was just me who thought the notation was a bit funny. I noticed it in particular when playing around in software.

- The x/y/z rotations use a right-handed Cartesian coordinate system and correspond with R/U/F.
- The slice turns M/E/S correspond to L/D/F. I thought a correspondence with R/U/F or even L/D/B would have made more sense.

Here's a thought for notation using a similar notation to wide turns:

Informal: m/e/s - like r/u/f
Formal: Ms/Es/Ss - like Rw/Uw/Fw

M/E/S in old sources would retain their original meanings.

p.s. I'm not advocating change... I just thought I'd write down a potential option.

 

[Renslay]

I thought it was just me who thought the notation was a bit funny. I noticed it in particular when playing around in software.

- The x/y/z rotations use a right-handed Cartesian coordinate system and correspond with R/U/F.
- The slice turns M/E/S correspond to L/D/F. I thought a correspondence with R/U/F or even L/D/B would have made more sense.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Kirjava]

N has been proposed before, and you can see how well it caught on that time.

 

[AndersB]

I have another idea for a new notation. Couldn't we just use X, Y and Z instead of M', E' and S? They relate to x, y and z much the same way as R relates to r, and the turning directions would become more consistent.

 

[newtonbase]

I have another idea for a new notation. Couldn't we just use X, Y and Z instead of M', E' and S? They relate to x, y and z much the same way as R relates to r, and the turning directions would become more consistent.

I like that.

 

[brian724080]

Why? When you read several lines of text, the normal order is from top to bottom. Looking at the F face, a normal M move pushes downwards. Similarly you read from left to right, which is why the E slice is in that direction. Turns shouldn't be based on how easy it is to do them, but instead what is logical. Also, it would be a bit pointless to change it now after so long.

Don't quite understand what you said there

 

[TMOY]

Europe used to use other measurements as well. Then things changed, which is what we are hoping for here.

The main problem with these old measurement units was their inconsistency. The length of the foot varied not only between countries, but also between regions. At least the modern US foot doesn't suffer from that problem.

About slice moves, a good way to remember their direction is to look at the alphabet: M follows L (as already pointed out by Ollie), and also E follows D.

 

[Forte]

About slice moves, a good way to remember their direction is to look at the alphabet: M follows L (as already pointed out by Ollie), and also E follows D.

whoaaaaaaaa

 

[MatejMuzatko]

I got used to it, but don't think would mind notation change....
I always thought of it like M' is AWAY from me and M TOWARDS me, and just got used to it