New notation for slice moves?

Ultimate Cuber

Ultimate Cuber

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M' = Regular M slice
M = Backwards M slice

Why is this so? It would make a lot more sense in my opinion for the regular M slice to be M and the backwards slice to be M'.
 
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Why? When you read several lines of text, the normal order is from top to bottom. Looking at the F face, a normal M move pushes downwards. Similarly you read from left to right, which is why the E slice is in that direction. Turns shouldn't be based on how easy it is to do them, but instead what is logical. Also, it would be a bit pointless to change it now after so long.
 
TDM said:
Why? When you read several lines of text, the normal order is from top to bottom. Looking at the F face, a normal M move pushes downwards. Similarly you read from left to right, which is why the E slice is in that direction. Turns shouldn't be based on how easy it is to do them, but instead what is logical. Also, it would be a bit pointless to change it now after so long.
Click to expand...

I guess that makes sense. I still think it would be more logical to base it on the idea of walking forward or backwards rather than reading up or down.
 
R should mean the right face turns counterclockwise and R' should mean the right face turns clockwise.

Why? When you read several lines of text, the normal order is from top to bottom. Looking at the F face, a normal R move pushes downwards. Similarly you read from left to right, which is why the E slice is in that direction. Turns shouldn't be based on how easy it is to do them, but instead what is logical.

:)

(By the way, I've always felt like M and M' were backwards too - I agree with you, Ultimate Cuber. But I guess also, it would be a bit pointless to change it now after so long.)
 
Mike Hughey said:
R should mean the right face turns counterclockwise and R' should mean the right face turns clockwise.

Why? When you read several lines of text, the normal order is from top to bottom. Looking at the F face, a normal R move pushes downwards. Similarly you read from left to right, which is why the E slice is in that direction. Turns shouldn't be based on how easy it is to do them, but instead what is logical.

:)

(By the way, I've always felt like M and M' were backwards too - I agree with you, Ultimate Cuber. But I guess also, it would be a bit pointless to change it now after so long.)
Click to expand...
I see what you did there... but for outer layer turns (or anything with UDLRFB), you can definitely say which direction is clockwise and which isn't. You can't for slice moves, which is why there is no definite way to name them. I just made up something to follow his logic of saying one is 'backwards', but tbh I don't really know why we've named them this. That was the best I could do.
 
Wait, when I did H perm, I always did M2 like M2' ? Wow man!
But I recently came to know about this when I was reconstructing and one of my friends said that my reconstruction is wrong, and I was like what? I did my reconstruction again and it would work out fine for me. Problem was I made M' as M :p I am silly!
Ultimate Cuber said:
M' = Regular M slice
M = Backwards M slice

Why is this so? It would make a lot more sense in my opinion for the regular M slice to be M and the backwards slice to be M'.
Click to expand...
 
M follows L, so Lw = L+M. And yeah, I thought when I was starting out it should follow R (just because R moves are far more widely used than L) but it's too late to change, so never mind :)
 
mprime.png
It's not backwards. I don't know if my epic paint skills will demonstrate anything to anyone, but here's why M is M and M' is M'.
When you think about L, you know which way it goes because you can imagine facing it and seeing that the face goes clockwise. Now, remove all the pieces from the L/R layers so you're left with an M slice. Now, when you do this slice turn, you imagine you're facing it from the left side, and you see how it's supposed to move clockwise when you do an M.
So they were defined as facing from the left side, not the right.
 
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cygorx said:
View attachment 3769
It's not backwards. I don't know if my epic paint skills will demonstrate anything to anyone, but here's why M is M and M' is M'.
When you think about L, you know which way it goes because you can imagine facing it and seeing that the face goes clockwise. Now, remove all the pieces from the L/R layers so you're left with an M slice. Now, when you do this slice turn, you imagine you're facing it from the left side, and you see how it's supposed to move clockwise when you do an M.
So they were defined as facing from the left side, not the right.
Click to expand...

Yes, but since x rotations were defined facing R why not the M slice?

Pretty much the same problem as we Americans have with our silly measurement systems. Too complicated to change it.
 
XTowncuber said:
Yes, but since x rotations were defined facing R why not the M slice?

Pretty much the same problem as we Americans have with our silly measurement systems. Too complicated to change it.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think it was made facing the R face. If you define the usual positive, right-handed system, with the positive x-axis moving to the right, then the x rotations, and y rotations, and z rotations, all do make sense. Unless I misinterpret you or my understanding of the cube, for which I apologize. The American system would be a good analogy, but the xyz-notation was built upon rotations about axes.
 
IMO M, S and E should match x, y and z but I don't really care. I just check before team blind that we're both on the same page.
 
Lucas Garron said:
I often wonder the same thing. I've seriously considered proposing N as an alias for M', but I'm not sure if that would be confusing, or if we would ever really transition.
Click to expand...

I think it could work. I would say just redefine M and E, but then all the algs and reconstructions from the past are thrown off. I just tried thinking of a letter to replace it, and v came to mind (for vertical), but then it might be confused for U. C came to mind as well (for center), but that just doesn't look good.

Anybody have a proposal for new notation (the letters)?
 
theZcuber said:
I think it could work. I would say just redefine M and E, but then all the algs and reconstructions from the past are thrown off. I just tried thinking of a letter to replace it, and v came to mind (for vertical), but then it might be confused for U. C came to mind as well (for center), but that just doesn't look good.

Anybody have a proposal for new notation (the letters)?
Click to expand...

I really wish the ppl that originally created the notation would have just made it line up with x/y/z so things wouldn't be so confusing and backwards lol. Similar to America's retarded measurement system like XTowncuber pointed out.
 
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Ultimate Cuber said:
I really wish the ppl that originally created the notation would have just made it line up with x/y/z so things wouldn't be so confusing and backwards lol. Similar to America's retarded measurement system like XTowncuber pointed out.
Click to expand...

Europe used to use other measurements as well. Then things changed, which is what we are hoping for here.
 
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