Slice Notation Makes Sense

[Swagrid]

 

[xyzzy]

(Already mentioned this in the other thread, but I guess people just skimmed through it because >wall of text.)

This is post hoc reasoning.

You can come up with mnemonics for literally anything, no matter how ridiculous. This is the entire premise of blindsolving and other memory sports! As far as I can tell, the alphabetical proximity of MES to LDF and how they follow the same respective directions is merely a coincidence, not a reason.

(Even if it really were a reason, calling this "logical" seems like a stretch. The alphabet isn't "logical" in any sense. Besides, S is closer to R than to F or B; why isn't S being used for M' instead?)

 

[Swagrid]

As far as I can tell, the alphabetical proximity of MES to LDF and how they follow the same respective directions is merely a coincidence, not a reason.

Well, we have no way of knowing if its deliberate or coincidental. But if we have a simple to learn and understand rule that holds true with no exceptions, why not keep and make use of it.

(Even if it really were a reason, calling this "logical" seems like a stretch. The alphabet isn't "logical" in any sense.)

Yeah, the alphabet is not logical. But I can see how someone could have come to the conclusion that we have for slice turns, and the rule makes a degree of sense. Nonetheless it can be successfully and logically applied. You can learn the rule before learning a single slice move and use the reasoning of _slices follow nearest letter in the alphabet_ to understand which way to turn.

It is logical itself? No. Does it work? Yes. Can it be easily understood, taught, and applied? Yes. Therefore I see no reason to change it.

 

[GodCubing]

The notation overhaul should be to allow slice moves FMC

 

[Michael's TPS]

M moves arent used because you touch 2 layers and you cant solve it with a wide move Ex: Do R' you can solve it with either R or wide r' with M you can do it with 2 MOVES ONLY 2 NEVER 1 R U F B can be solved with ONE wide move not M though

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

(Already mentioned this in the other thread, but I guess people just skimmed through it because >wall of text.)

This is post hoc reasoning.

You can come up with mnemonics for literally anything, no matter how ridiculous. This is the entire premise of blindsolving and other memory sports! As far as I can tell, the alphabetical proximity of MES to LDF and how they follow the same respective directions is merely a coincidence, not a reason.

(Even if it really were a reason, calling this "logical" seems like a stretch. The alphabet isn't "logical" in any sense. Besides, S is closer to R than to F or B; why isn't S being used for M' instead?)

Well, what we call clockwise and what we call counterclockwise is also not 'logical'. Just matter of convention. So either no notation is logical, or all of it. (Personally I'd say none of it is logical, outer layers are just easier to learn because everyone knows the direction of the clock)

 

[FenTheGoat]

The notation overhaul should be to allow slice moves FMC

I would argue that that would be too big of a change to make.

 

[OtaMota]

Just a cool fact, Singmaster, the person who made the R, U B', D2 etc notation did not invent the slice notation.

 

[artless1der]

Just a cool fact, Singmaster, the person who made the R, U B', D2 etc notation did not invent the slice notation.

another fun fact:
before people had clocks the words for these two directions of rotation were often referred to as:

............."clockwise" = deosil (with the sun)
and
"counterclockwise" = widdershins (with the 乁⁠(⁠ ⁠•⁠_⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠ㄏ)
true story

 

[xyzzy]

Well, what we call clockwise and what we call counterclockwise is also not 'logical'. Just matter of convention.

You're right on this front, but there's clearly a sliding scale of "logicalness". The convention we have (Singmaster notation) is actually fairly well thought out: unadorned letters always mean clockwise quarter turns as viewed from that face. You could imagine a bizarro world where some guy called Mastsinger instead decided that unadorned letters would be anticlockwise turns, and that would be equally logical/illogical.

(actually, slightly less logical, since humans tend to be right-handed and clockwise rotations are a bit more natural for right-handers!)

What you could also imagine is a batshit insane world where the notation is mostly like our usual Singmaster notation, except U moves are reversed. Any unadorned letter is a clockwise turn, except that U turns are widdershins, because why the heck not? I would argue that this insane notation is less logical than Singmaster or mirror-Singmaster notation. Singmaster notation has a lot of symmetry; this insane notation has much less. They're all non-canonical (a "matter of convention", as you say), but clearly this one feels especially non-canonical.

---

What about slice moves? Slice moves force you to either break symmetry or have redundant notation. I have seen people seriously suggesting flipping the directions of L/D/B when in a slice-heavy context; SiGN allows for this if you use 1R, 2R, 3R, etc. to denote single-slice moves.

1R = R, 2R = M', 3R = L', and they all follow the same direction. Logical, innit?

What we instead have in reality is that dyslexia is common enough that "2R" and "R2" can be confused for each other, and the prevailing convention is the weirdo MES slice notation instead of SiGN anyway. There are 2^3 = 8 possible ways to assign directions to MES, and we happen to live in one of the eight universes where M follows L, E follows D, and S follows F. This choice is completely non-canonical: they're all equally symmetrical and there's a cube rotation that brings one choice to any other of the eight, so from a coordinate-free point of view, they're equally good (/ equally bad).

This also has nothing to do with what I originally mentioned in my first reply, which was that I don't believe there's a causal relationship between alphabetical closeness and the choice.

 

[abunickabhi]

Middle, Slice and Equator are good names for the 3x3 slice moves.

I propose having unique names for big cubes slice moves as well. 2R2, or 2Rw2 are not too elegant letters, some unique nomenclature can be assigned.

 

[stoic]

widdershins

I learned a new word today.
Nice!

 

[artless1der]

I learned a new word today.
Nice!

you're welcome !!!
don't spend it all in one slice i mean *place*

 

[artless1der]

another fun fact:
before people had clocks the words for these two directions of rotation were often referred to as:

............."clockwise" = deosil (with the sun)
and
"counterclockwise" = widdershins (with the 乁⁠(⁠ ⁠•⁠_⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠ㄏ)
true story

. . .
perhaps instead of ' being called *Prime" (or "Reverse" since that starts with R!`))
we should add one or the other of these words after the Letter-Designate for whichever layer is being turned...
Wait, how long are all the algs again?