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My Tips for Becoming Color Neutral

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jskyler91

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I've been CN since I started cubing about 4 years ago and I avg about 10.5. Honestly, I don't think it is that beneficial. While it is true that I get a few amazing solves once awhile because of an easy cross, I usually spend most of my inspection deciding which cross is the easiest. Most of the time I feel like all the crosses are all equally bad. I think the best way to go is just dual neutrality. You can find your cross quicker and have more time to plan the first pair
Yeah, sometimes I forget how much it helps, but then I try and do a fixed cross only average and see how my times become way more sporatic. I like that being CN helps to keep me relatively consistent.
 

Mollerz

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Wow, you are quite firey about this, I am just going to end this before it starts and say you are perfectly allowed to voice your concerns, but do so informedly. I responded to all of the claims you made in previous parts of the thread. I feel no need to respond to your asking for a list of the advantages as I say them in my video and in detail on many pages here. Also, I don't care if you wish to use ****'s to curse at me, but just so you realize, ****'s just make you look rather immature and show how short tempered you are. This is a simple discussion man, relax.

Also, congrats on your quick progress!!
I'm not cursing at you, believe me. I'm using a common British phrase (to put it lightly, p'd off) which I would use in day to day life but happens to be censored in this forum to shelter the younger ones amongst us. Your lack of response to anything I've actually written is more of a sign that you don't have a reasonable argument at all.

You say you have told us all the advantages, but all I can hear you say is that it will help you find an easier cross, which again is not necessarily an advantage since it may set you up for a worse solve in the other stages or because you have found an easier cross you may have missed out on an easy Xcross. The other advantage you mention is that it improves your lookahead. How is this so? You aren't looking for anything MORE, you are just looking for different colours. If you are a single colour cross solver with equal lookahead skill to a colour neutral solver then the chances are you will actually solve faster because you know the exact pieces, where they need to go and can plan ahead much more easily. Obviously if you can do this on any colour cross then your lookahead is superior and you deserve those sub-9 averages you should be getting since presumably your lookahead can handle your TPS.

The advantages that you list are not necessarily advantages. For whatever speed you are, there will always be something better for you to learn to actually get faster.
 
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TheMachanga

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I've been CN all my life of cubing, and I f****** suck at cross building. That's the disadvantage. Once in a while, you get no obvious crosses to start with. I panic, and I dnf almost always. This happened to me in a competition too. I don't know how to no be CN. If I were to begin solving non-cn (which I tried before for fun), and do averages of 20+, I'm MUCH slower. There is no preference in cross colors, really, if you started early. If you were to switch now, the only advantage would be knowing how to solve those once in a blue moon scrambles that has no easy cases. However, because you started late, you will forever see white as an advantage color that you're better at.
 

jskyler91

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I'm not cursing at you, believe me. I'm using a common British phrase (to put it lightly, p'd off) which I would use in day to day life but happens to be censored in this forum to shelter the younger ones amongst us. Your lack of response to anything I've actually written is more of a sign that you don't have a reasonable argument at all.

You say you have told us all the advantages, but all I can hear you say is that it will help you find an easier cross, which again is not necessarily an advantage since it may set you up for a worse solve in the other stages or because you have found an easier cross you may have missed out on an easy Xcross. The other advantage you mention is that it improves your lookahead. How is this so? You aren't looking for anything MORE, you are just looking for different colours. If you are a single colour cross solver with equal lookahead skill to a colour neutral solver then the chances are you will actually solve faster because you know the exact pieces, where they need to go and can plan ahead much more easily. Obviously if you can do this on any colour cross then your lookahead is superior and you deserve those sub-9 averages you should be getting since presumably your lookahead can handle your TPS.

The advantages that you list are not necessarily advantages. For whatever speed you are, there will always be something better for you to learn to actually get faster.
Lookahead improvement and a shorter cross isn't enough? How about more chances are getting x-crosses, confidence that you will almost never have an eight move cross unless you really suck, increased tps you will be able to turn at during cross because it is easier, and a lower standard deviation because you never have to do the hard crosses? All of these advantages which you can gain in every single solve. I don't know fo any other thing that you can learn/ practice that will help you this much... except maybe cross practice. anyway, this is not a forum to discuss CN it is a forum on how to change. I offered a way to change. Can we end it at that please?

I've been CN all my life of cubing, and I f****** suck at cross building. That's the disadvantage. Once in a while, you get no obvious crosses to start with. I panic, and I dnf almost always. This happened to me in a competition too. I don't know how to no be CN. If I were to begin solving non-cn (which I tried before for fun), and do averages of 20+, I'm MUCH slower. There is no preference in cross colors, really, if you started early. If you were to switch now, the only advantage would be knowing how to solve those once in a blue moon scrambles that has no easy cases. However, because you started late, you will forever see white as an advantage color that you're better at.
Not true at all, I started later and I am fine, plus I am great at crosses, this just seems to be your experience, not the necessary outcome of becoming CN.
 
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Kyle™

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Maybe I thought of something that people seem to be overlooking... I hear a lot of "The #1 and #2 solvers in the world are CN". Ok, but how about for the past 5~ years? Look back at any random year and see how many people in the top 10 were CN. What if you made this thread back then? See how it seems a bit biased now? Or even coincidence? What if next year the #1 and #2 spots aren't CN? Do you think Feliks or Rowe would be slower if they weren't CN ( How much could it REALLY be helping at their level? ) If I recall correctly, when Jean Pons set the WR and he did his cross on top, and almost everyone will tell you to form your cross on D. Jean Pons apparently did what was comfortable, not possibly fastest. I think Erik also used to do cross on top. Without all of that "WR holders use CN" jive, it just seems like a "Hey, make your cross .5 sec faster" method. I'll take my medicore look-ahead over that, thanks very much. No negativity intended here.

Edit : If any new cubers enjoy the video hey should give it a shot though. Do what feels comfortable in my opinion.
 
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TheMachanga

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Maybe I thought of something that people seem to be overlooking... I hear a lot of "The #1 and #2 solvers in the world are CN". Ok, but how about for the past 5~ years? Look back at any random year and see how many people in the top 10 were CN. What if you made this thread back then? See how it seems a bit biased now? Or even coincidence? What if next year the #1 and #2 spots aren't CN? Do you think Feliks or Rowe would be slower if they weren't CN ( How much could it REALLY be helping at their level? ) If I recall correctly, when Jean Pons set the WR and he did his cross on top, and almost everyone will tell you to form your cross on D. Jean Pons apparently did what was comfortable, not possibly fastest. I think Erik also used to do cross on top. Without all of that "WR holders use CN" jive, it just seems like a "Hey, make your cross .5 sec faster" method. I'll take my medicore look-ahead over that, thanks very much. No negativity intended here. Just my opinion.
Yeah, but people were slower back then. Pons did his cross on top and had a WR. Ok. That's like saying "the old marathon WR was done with a pair of 1976 New Balance shoes. It's a lot slower than today's times, but hey, it was a world record, so it's the same as using modern shoes.
 

jskyler91

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Those who are trying this please feel free to use this as a place to post your results and opinions, I would love to hear them. Also, I thank everyone who has provided me their feedback and opinions; even if I don't agree, your opinions help to better inform my statements and help others to see CN with as many filters as possible.
 

Kyle™

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Yeah, but people were slower back then. Pons did his cross on top and had a WR. Ok. That's like saying "the old marathon WR was done with a pair of 1976 New Balance shoes. It's a lot slower than today's times, but hey, it was a world record, so it's the same as using modern shoes.
That analogy doesn't really make sense, especially since I made several points in my post. I wasn't just pointing out that past WR holders weren't CN, but that just because the current WR holder is CN doesn't make it better than non-CN. It's like saying 5 years ago "CN is bad because the WR doesn't use it". Different year, same logic. Learn what makes sense and feels fast. If people want to learn it so that they can improve their times, that's one thing. Doing it because the WR holder uses it = not a good reason to learn. Just sayin'.
 

Weston

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To all: if you don't like the idea, then don't practice it and move on. If you like the idea, try it and post your results. It's okay to disagree. It is just an idea.

Has anyone who uses just a 1 color cross tried to do 5 averages of 100 with each of the 5 other colors (starting with the opposite color and then opposites from there on out)? I'd be curious of the results, and how they decline over each avg of 100.

White: 10.40, 10.54, 11.89, 9.93, 9.45 = 10.29
Yellow: 8.84, 10.44, 13.57, 13.03, 12.45 = 11.97
Blue: 14.75, 13.28, 13.96, 16.28, 14.00 = 14.24
Green: 14.30, 14.76, 16.92, 14.87, 13.86 = 14.94
Red: 13.03, 20.22, 17.43, 17.27, 12.72 = 15.91
Orange: 13.77, 16.54, 12.05, 14.32, 16.77 = 14.88

12.05 on orange was ZBLL. The rest were full step (too).

EDIT:
Oh, he said 5 averages of 100. lol
oops. I don't have time for that now. I might do it later.
 

jskyler91

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White: 10.40, 10.54, 11.89, 9.93, 9.45 = 10.29
Yellow: 8.84, 10.44, 13.57, 13.03, 12.45 = 11.97
Blue: 14.75, 13.28, 13.96, 16.28, 14.00 = 14.24
Green: 14.30, 14.76, 16.92, 14.87, 13.86 = 14.94
Red: 13.03, 20.22, 17.43, 17.27, 12.72 = 15.91
Orange: 13.77, 16.54, 12.05, 14.32, 16.77 = 14.88

12.05 on orange was ZBLL. The rest were full step (too).

EDIT:
Oh, he said 5 averages of 100. lol
oops. I don't have time for that now. I might do it later.
If you can still be sub 15 with Cn and you haven't practiced, I think you would be able to do full CN with not that much effort. You should really try my idea man, you would benefit from it a lot.
 

Kirjava

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Maybe they haven't done it because they haven't had the right way to do it man. Just chill out and see if others like my method for switching.
What method? This is just advice on switching, nothing here is new.

How can you say my method doesn't work when you haven't tried it? It worked for me and I think it can for others. What "misinformation" am I spreading?
Of course it's possible to switch. The misinformation you are spreading is the level of effort and time involved. It's absurd to say that it will take a month to switch when you have no idea of the actual timeframe, and you are misleading people into thinking it requires less effort than it actually does.

I am saying that if you stick to it IIIIIIIII believe you can switch in a month.
You are saying that you /can/ switch in a month. If you portrayed this as if it was something you /thought/, I wouldn't have a problem. But you seem to be giving this figure of a month as if it is true.

Let's see if I am right instead of getting annoyed for no reason because YOU, who has not tried my method yet, thinks it wont work. Just because you gave up dude doesn't mean it is impossible.
I never gave up because I never tried switching. I don't want to. Waste of my time.

There are reasons for me to be annoyed that I've stated over and over again.

I am almost certain your reasons for it not working are because you didn't switch systematically.
You're assuming that I tried to switch. You're assuming that I want to switch.

PS. Can everyone stop hatting? I am simply trying to help out the forum with a new, structured way to switch, something which the forum did not have before.
I'm not 'hatting'. I'm being realistic and trying to explain to people how switching will take them longer than a month if they are already fast.

Also, there is nothing new here. There's nothing special about your 'method'.

If you don't think it will work then either try it 100 percent sticking to my method and prove me wrong or don't try it. Your repetitive nay saying without any real proof (this is a new method so trying to say that others have tried and failed does not count as proof, the only really proof you can provide is to actually try it and fail.) is just to qoute Kirjava "misinformation".
How come we are not allowed to explain to people that based on past experience and opbservation, you are not likely able to switch in a month, yet you seem to think it's perfectly fine to tell people that they can easily switch in a month if they want to.
 

jskyler91

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What method? This is just advice on switching, nothing here is new.



Of course it's possible to switch. The misinformation you are spreading is the level of effort and time involved. It's absurd to say that it will take a month to switch when you have no idea of the actual timeframe, and you are misleading people into thinking it requires less effort than it actually does.



You are saying that you /can/ switch in a month. If you portrayed this as if it was something you /thought/, I wouldn't have a problem. But you seem to be giving this figure of a month as if it is true.



I never gave up because I never tried switching. I don't want to. Waste of my time.

There are reasons for me to be annoyed that I've stated over and over again.



You're assuming that I tried to switch. You're assuming that I want to switch.



I'm not 'hatting'. I'm being realistic and trying to explain to people how switching will take them longer than a month if they are already fast.

Also, there is nothing new here. There's nothing special about your 'method'.



How come we are not allowed to explain to people that based on past experience and opbservation, you are not likely able to switch in a month, yet you seem to think it's perfectly fine to tell people that they can easily switch in a month if they want to.
We will see, honestly I could care less what you think, I am simply trying to help people who wish to change. You have made your opinion known, now please stop littering this forum with useless arguing. This is not a forum to discuss Color Neutrality or whether or not you can/ should switch to it, it is simply a new way for people to try switching and a place where they can record their results. Thank you for your input Kirjava, have a good night.
 

Kirjava

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We will see, honestly I could care less what you think
Thanks for your reply, I'm glad you addressed the points I made without ignoring them. It shows that you know what you're talking about.

(On a side note, I think you meant to say that you "couldn't care less", as what you said doesn't quite make sense)

I am simply trying to help people who wish to change.
I'm trying to help people not waste their time unless they're aware of exactly how much time they will be investing.

You have made your opinion known, now please stop littering this forum with useless arguing.
I'm contributing valuable information, no need to stop.

This is not a forum to discuss Color Neutrality or whether or not you can/ should switch to it
Of course it is.

Thank you for your input Kirjava, have a good night.
Pfft, you're not thankful at all. XD
 

chardison1980

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question?
are you able to make a video like this for block building methods, like ROUX, PETRUS, and WATERMAN?
id be interested to see it.

I hope this helps those of you wishing to change. Remember that if you want this to work you have to do what I said EVERY TIME. If you stick to it you can do it.

Also, please try this method before you say it won't work. I personally think it will, but if you don't think so please prove me wrong.

Here is a schedule for those who want it:

Days 1- 4 Practice Yellow only
Days 5- 9 Practice Blue only
Day 10- Practice Blue and Yellow, always doing the best cross
Days 11-15- Practice Green Only
Day 16- Practice with Blue Green and Yellow Only
Days 17- 21- Practice Red Only
Days 22- 26- Practice Orange Only
Days 27- 30- Practice all Colors Except White
Day 31- Til you quit cubing- Practice all colors, always choosing the best cross.

This assumes you will be starting with white, if not just switch yellow with the color opposite of your normal starting color. You will also see that on days 10, and 16 i have you doing all the colors you have learned, after some thought I realized that it might be a good idea to have some review every now and then.

To all of those who wish to comment on the validity of this idea please watch this first:
 
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jskyler91

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question?
are you able to make a video like this for block building methods, like ROUX, PETRUS, and WATERMAN?
id be interested to see it.
I think this concept and method is rather universal. No matter what method you do you will still have to develop these same filters in relatively the same way. I guess I did mention a lot of f2l in here, but just replace that with whatever you do as your method. So for Roux this would be your 2x3x1 block pieces and for petrus this would be you 2x2x2 block pieces, I don't really know waterman so I don't know the equivalent. I could make the vid if enough people want it, but right now I am feeling a little less inclined to seeing as how some many people just ripped apart this vid when all I was trying to do was help.
 

Thorsten

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Hi there,

I fell over this thread and I have to say I always wanted to be ColorNeutral. Not only in the way "I want to be faster" but more the way it is more flexible while solving. I always asked myself why a red cross is not working for me. And it certainly is a limitation of my mind while solving.

I once tried to became CN with a system like change the color every solve. My problem with that system was that my mind couldn't change fast enough (not only the cross but the F2l pairs and the corresponding color scheme!). Practicing every color for a few days will maybe solve this problem.

So I'll give it a try.
I'll give feedback after a while, too.


PS: What I think is weird about ColorNeutrality or Fixed Cross is the ingnorance of some people. Everybody says he is right. I personally don't know what is better. And there is certainly no way to proof that one or the other way is better.

What most people forget about cubing is that its not all mathematical and it's not only about saving one or two moves at the cross. There is always a human being solving the cube and they are all different which means what can be good for one can be bad for the other.
 

jskyler91

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Hi there,

I fell over this thread and I have to say I always wanted to be ColorNeutral. Not only in the way "I want to be faster" but more the way it is more flexible while solving. I always asked myself why a red cross is not working for me. And it certainly is a limitation of my mind while solving.

I once tried to became CN with a system like change the color every solve. My problem with that system was that my mind couldn't change fast enough (not only the cross but the F2l pairs and the corresponding color scheme!). Practicing every color for a few days will maybe solve this problem.

So I'll give it a try.
I'll give feedback after a while, too.


PS: What I think is weird about ColorNeutrality or Fixed Cross is the ingnorance of some people. Everybody says he is right. I personally don't know what is better. And there is certainly no way to proof that one or the other way is better.

What most people forget about cubing is that its not all mathematical and it's not only about saving one or two moves at the cross. There is always a human being solving the cube and they are all different which means what can be good for one can be bad for the other.
Very good points. I really hope this works for you.
 
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