Invented a new method

[sz35]

Hello guys,
I was thinking about a method that will give me a 1LLL with a lower number of algs than ZB and this is what I thought about:

Step 1- use any method that you want up to the last f2l slot and the edges need to be oriented ( ZZ , Petrus etc.)

Step 2-you insert the last F2L FROM ANY CASE and permute two opposite LL corners (= around 60 cases)

Step 3- use a subset of ZBLL (=around 160 cases) to complete the LL

the avg move count is:
step one: depends on what method you use
step two: 7-8 moves on avg
step three: 12 moves

So, what do you say ? If some people will be interested I will make a full alg page

Edit:
I thought about it and I found a way to use this method for people who don't like methods that pre-orient edges:
insert the edge and than insert the corner with orienting the edges+permuting 2 corners ( I will make a list of the algs after I will complete the method F2L algs)= avg around 2 edge insertion+ 7-8 corner insertion, 96 cases to learn

 

[Cyrus C.]

This is pretty much a variation of the winter variation, I think we already have a thread for new methods to go into.

 

[mazei]

Actually there is already something like it, called phasing. Instead of permuting corners, it permutes edges.

 

[wrbcube4]

That sounds very interesting, I would love the algorithms.

 

[sz35]

That sounds very interesting, I would love the algorithms.

Thanks very much I'm working on it (and mazei - I didnt like the phashing method this is why I invented this one)

 

[Lucas Garron]

Inventing a method is not like filing a pre-emptive patent saying "I invented a new method" and then continuing only if there's interest.

Could you try to give us a better idea of exactly what is entailed, and why it's really new?
In particular, step 2 looks quite iffy to implement. Do you have a clear idea of what cases there are, how to find algs, and how to apply them in practice?

(Not that your idea is bad. But quite a few of us could come up with a "method" like this, and start a more informative thread about it.)

 

[Cyrus C.]

Inventing a method is not like filing a pre-emptive patent saying "I invented a new method" and then continuing only if there's interest.

Could you try to give us a better idea of exactly what is entailed, and why it's really new?
In particular, step 2 looks quite iffy to implement. Do you have a clear idea of what cases there are, how to find algs, and how to apply them in practice?

(Not that your idea is bad. But quite a few of us could come up with a "method" like this, and start a more informative thread about it.)

I assume you could just use the winter Variation Algorithms... but you know what they say about people who assume...

 

[4Chan]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

 

[sz35]

Inventing a method is not like filing a pre-emptive patent saying "I invented a new method" and then continuing only if there's interest.

Could you try to give us a better idea of exactly what is entailed, and why it's really new?
In particular, step 2 looks quite iffy to implement. Do you have a clear idea of what cases there are, how to find algs, and how to apply them in practice?

(Not that your idea is bad. But quite a few of us could come up with a "method" like this, and start a more informative thread about it.)

Yes, I've listed all the f2l cases and found algs for 1/4 of them in 3 days and i have found a recognition method

 

[hawkmp4]

What benefit does this method give over existing ones?

 

[sz35]

What benefit does this method give over existing ones?

1) (with ZZ) you "pay" only 2-3 moves on the F2L for 1LLL
2) you need to learn less than 250 algs
3) the LL algs are easier to reconize than ZZLL!

 

[4Chan]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

I put them in different subsets to you (when I was doing ZB) and I have algs for all headlights cases. Will learn them when I finish OLL.
Then I'll move onto sune...

I'm not sure I understand you at all. :confused:
Not your post to be exact, but your intentions about the ZB method.

I take the ZB method very seriously.
But i've seen you criticize the ZB method multiple times, and you even said I had no life. Even though you prefaced it with "no offense to.."

But now you state that you're learning the method, even though you said before that you weren't going to learn the method?
That's confusing.


But "headlights" is around 72 algorithms, 40 with mirrors, and its a decent start. But you should look at H cases next... if you're serious. Theyre fast, and out of all the sets, it has the least algorithms. It's only 2/3rd the work of sune.

EDIT: I'm not sure about my last post, I thought you were doing edge orientation AND the corner step at once. So i think I was wrong, sorry about that.

 

[JLarsen]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

I put them in different subsets to you (when I was doing ZB) and I have algs for all headlights cases. Will learn them when I finish OLL.
Then I'll move onto sune...

But....you average 24?

 

[sz35]

Good News!

I finished listing all the F2L cases and found algs for all of them!!!

 

[Tim Major]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

I put them in different subsets to you (when I was doing ZB) and I have algs for all headlights cases. Will learn them when I finish OLL.
Then I'll move onto sune...

I'm not sure I understand you at all. :confused:
Not your post to be exact, but your intentions about the ZB method.

I take the ZB method very seriously.
But i've seen you criticize the ZB method multiple times, and you even said I had no life. Even though you prefaced it with "no offense to.."

But now you state that you're learning the method, even though you said before that you weren't going to learn the method?
That's confusing.


But "headlights" is around 72 algorithms, 40 with mirrors, and its a decent start. But you should look at H cases next... if you're serious. Theyre fast, and out of all the sets, it has the least algorithms. It's only 2/3rd the work of sune.

I'm sorry for all offense caused. What I meant was I no longer liked the ZB method due to the amount of algorithms, for me it takes the fun out of it.

I did not go into depth with ZB, but more I know several algs for several OLL case, but they affect the cube differently. I can't wait until you get really fast, however, I do not like the idea of ZB. Anyone who has fun, has a life, so you sir have a life, as you like cubing with ZB.

I never knew headlights had so many algs. In my ignorance, I assumed there would be 21 cases for each OLL, but now I think about it, I was very wrong. I wish you had my username instead, as it is more fitting for you.

My final comment is that I never gave ZB too much thought. I originally thought it was a way for me to be no.1, but that is not the case. If I ever get to 12-13 seconds on 3x3, I may learn ZB, though like what you are doing (I think) I will not learn all algs, and will rather do mirrors. I am currently working out algs for an extremely advanced pyra method though. If only we could switch usernames. You have such an awesome username!

EDIT: I figured out the different cases by going through all PLLs, and applying the same headlights alg for each of them, giving me 21 cases. I thought this would be all. :fp

 

[Spitfire97]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

I put them in different subsets to you (when I was doing ZB) and I have algs for all headlights cases. Will learn them when I finish OLL.
Then I'll move onto sune...

I'm not sure I understand you at all. :confused:
Not your post to be exact, but your intentions about the ZB method.

I take the ZB method very seriously.
But i've seen you criticize the ZB method multiple times, and you even said I had no life. Even though you prefaced it with "no offense to.."

But now you state that you're learning the method, even though you said before that you weren't going to learn the method?
That's confusing.


But "headlights" is around 72 algorithms, 40 with mirrors, and its a decent start. But you should look at H cases next... if you're serious. Theyre fast, and out of all the sets, it has the least algorithms. It's only 2/3rd the work of sune.

I never knew headlights had so many algs. In my ignorance, I assumed there would be 21 cases for each OLL,

I guess Youre thinking 21 PLLs?
But then there are 4 positions each= 84
H perm has 1 position= 81
z perm has 2 = 79
E perm has 2 =77
Pll skip has 1=74
ehh a few more Pll reduces it to about 70 as chris said.
And I dont even use ZB .

 

[nigtv]

Well, the 'less than 250 algorithms!' comment sort of discouraged me from posting this, but i'll do it anyway (probably at the expense of proving my inexperience with methods in general, but we'll see)

Maybe if you did a heise-style first step, you'd have more control over the position of the second step, although it's not very time friendly, it could help with the move count.

 

[Tim Major]

Hehehehe, I has all ZBLL algs.

Also, the algs are on the internet too. 0:
All optimal LL algs are already found.

Interesting, but recognition is slower than ZB ,method, since you're permuting corners.
<-Has experience.

Also, it seems like youre making a more complicated ZBF2L step by placing 2 corners, which would make the algs much much more than 160.

I put them in different subsets to you (when I was doing ZB) and I have algs for all headlights cases. Will learn them when I finish OLL.
Then I'll move onto sune...

I'm not sure I understand you at all. :confused:
Not your post to be exact, but your intentions about the ZB method.

I take the ZB method very seriously.
But i've seen you criticize the ZB method multiple times, and you even said I had no life. Even though you prefaced it with "no offense to.."

But now you state that you're learning the method, even though you said before that you weren't going to learn the method?
That's confusing.


But "headlights" is around 72 algorithms, 40 with mirrors, and its a decent start. But you should look at H cases next... if you're serious. Theyre fast, and out of all the sets, it has the least algorithms. It's only 2/3rd the work of sune.

I never knew headlights had so many algs. In my ignorance, I assumed there would be 21 cases for each OLL,

I guess Youre thinking 21 PLLs?
But then there are 4 positions each= 84
H perm has 1 position= 81
z perm has 2 = 79
E perm has 2 =77
Pll skip has 1=74
ehh a few more Pll reduces it to about 70 as chris said.
And I dont even use ZB .

That was what I'd thought at the time.

 

[nigtv]

Wow, nested quote much?