I feel bad for Kian?

[Thom S.]

I mean, I don't want to spoil the fun, but can the Roux-opponents in this Thread start to use arguments? I wouldn't say that Roux is bad and CFOP is better because it's better are valid arguments

Also, someone mentioned that tilting your head means that Roux is sucked dry.
Speedstacking Records are still being broken, although the realization that you can start the timer with your palms and be a bit faster is not too long ago. I don't know about you but those two innovations seem pretty comparable

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

I mean, I don't want to spoil the fun, but can the Roux-opponents in this Thread start to use arguments? I wouldn't say that Roux is bad and CFOP is better because it's better are valid arguments

Also, someone mentioned that tilting your head means that Roux is sucked dry.
Speedstacking Records are still being broken, although the realization that you can start the timer with your palms and be a bit faster is not too long ago. I don't know about you but those two innovations seem pretty comparable

And as I said in the first post, there are new people coming onto the roux scene (Sean Patrick) that will have different perspectives than Kian does. CFOP has had so many people develop it and come up with novel ideas but that’s just starting to happen with roux. Only waffo, Kavin, Kangaroux, Alex Lau and Kian have really contributed to the developement of the method other than Gilles Roux himself, while CFOP has had dozens of major contributors since the 80s. I don’t think it’s fair to base a comparison off of only 1 or a few factors. This is multifaceted, and that’s why I think it’s hard to definitively say that either roux or CFOP is better than another.

And people can easily say “well, roux is less popular because people are given the choice to choose one over the other and they choose CFOP, etc.” I think that’s a terrible argument. I’m not particularly fast, but often. I’ll share at comps that I use roux and people are like “is that even a fast method?” I’m not saying people should necessarily learn more about roux, but I think the circumstances that made roux less popular are just that- circumstances.

 

[Thom S.]

And as I said in the first post, there are new people coming onto the roux scene (Sean Patrick) that will have different perspectives than Kian does. CFOP has had so many people develop it and come up with novel ideas but that’s just starting to happen with roux. Only waffo, Kavin, Kangaroux, Alex Lau and Kian have really contributed to the developement of the method other than Gilles Roux himself, while CFOP has had dozens of major contributors since the 80s. I don’t think it’s fair to base a comparison off of only 1 or a few factors. This is multifaceted, and that’s why I think it’s hard to definitively say that either roux or CFOP is better than another.

And people can easily say “well, roux is less popular because people are given the choice to choose one over the other and they choose CFOP, etc.” I think that’s a terrible argument. I’m not particularly fast, but often. I’ll share at comps that I use roux and people are like “is that even a fast method?” I’m not saying people should necessarily learn more about roux, but I think the circumstances that made roux less popular are just that- circumstances.

You misunderstood my post

 

[Klaudiusz Szyprocinski]

Now, I'm not saying Roux is better. That's my main point, really: there isn't enough evidence yet that either is better.

and that's where you're wrong.

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

You misunderstood my post

No, I didn’t, you misunderstood mine. I was adding on to what you said. I agree with you and wanted to provide more evidence.

 

[Loser]

I mean, I don't want to spoil the fun, but can the Roux-opponents in this Thread start to use arguments? I wouldn't say that Roux is bad and CFOP is better because it's better are valid arguments

https://www.worldcubeassociation.or...onId=&years=&show=100+Persons&average=Average

this is all the arguments we need

2 in top 70 lmao

best roux user is only tied for 8th also lol

 

[WoowyBaby]

Seriously, another Roux vs. CFOP argument? It literally doesn’t matter. Both are fast. One is not objectively better than the other. Period. Choose whichever one you enjoy more, that’s what really matters. Have fun.

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/events.php?eventId=333&regionId=&years=&show=100+Persons&average=Average

this is all the arguments we need

2 in top 70 lmao

best roux user is only tied for 8th also lol

Nice job cherry picking stats lmao

 

[Loser]

Nice job cherry picking stats lmao

cherry pick stats for roux, they'll still favor cfop

 

[kubnintadni]

Seriously, another Roux vs. CFOP argument? It literally doesn’t matter. Both are fast. One is not objectively better than the other. Period. Choose whichever one you enjoy more, that’s what really matters. Have fun.

I disagree. Given that Roux and CFOP are very different in approach to solving the cube, it is exceedingly unlikely that they should just so happen to be the same speed. One <i>is</i> objectively better than the other, even if we disagree (or don't think we can tell for sure yet) about which.

 

[Thom S.]

cherry pick stats for roux, they'll still favor cfop

You can interpret this how you want, that statement is contradicting.
Also, you seem to have such a hatred for Roux, did it do something to you?

 

[Sue Doenim]

cherry pick stats for roux, they'll still favor cfop

Actually, if you take all of the times in the top 100 averages and find the mean time for each method, Roux is lower. The problem is, the sample size is low enough that I don't think it's a very good comparison. There's also a significant chance that I messed up. I don't have the numbers anymore, and the website is down, so I'll recheck it sometime later. Also, in case anyone was wondering, when I did the T-test, the p-value for whether Roux is faster was about 0.3, if I remember correctly. If I'm interpreting it correctly, that means that it's a pretty credible statistic. Then again, the sample size is by no means large, and that could bias the results a bunch.

 

[RouxCuber]

Actually, if you take all of the times in the top 100 averages and find the mean time for each method, Roux is lower. The problem is, the sample size is low enough that I don't think it's a very good comparison. There's also a significant chance that I messed up. I don't have the numbers anymore, and the website is down, so I'll recheck it sometime later. Also, in case anyone was wondering, when I did the T-test, the p-value for whether Roux is faster was about 0.3, if I remember correctly. If I'm interpreting it correctly, that means that it's a pretty credible statistic. Then again, the sample size is by no means large, and that could bias the results a bunch.

wow statistics! i just finished my alg 2 course and i hated stats. but i'm a Rouxvolutionist, so i join you.

 

[kubnintadni]

wow statistics! i just finished my alg 2 course and i hated stats. but i'm a Rouxvolutionist, so i join you.

It might have just been the way it was taught. I wish my stats class had used calculus to show derivations of the formulas that we applied. As it was it was mostly just plugging numbers into the proper formula without actually being given the reasoning and derivation behind the tests.

 

[RouxCuber]

And as I said in the first post, there are new people coming onto the roux scene (Sean Patrick) that will have different perspectives than Kian does. CFOP has had so many people develop it and come up with novel ideas but that’s just starting to happen with roux. Only waffo, Kavin, Kangaroux, Alex Lau and Kian have really contributed to the developement of the method other than Gilles Roux himself, while CFOP has had dozens of major contributors since the 80s. I don’t think it’s fair to base a comparison off of only 1 or a few factors. This is multifaceted, and that’s why I think it’s hard to definitively say that either roux or CFOP is better than another.

And people can easily say “well, roux is less popular because people are given the choice to choose one over the other and they choose CFOP, etc.” I think that’s a terrible argument. I’m not particularly fast, but often. I’ll share at comps that I use roux and people are like “is that even a fast method?” I’m not saying people should necessarily learn more about roux, but I think the circumstances that made roux less popular are just that- circumstances.

I think that considering this, that makes Roux even better because about 97% (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it''s somewhere there) of cubers use CFOP and like 1% Roux. Roux is already catching up to CFOP, if it has not already surpassed it. If any more of the cubing population uses Roux, the innovations and evolution of the method would be mind-blowing.

 

[Ash Black]

I heard in an interview with Kian that he doesn't practice as much as other people might, and he is one of the only world class roux solvers, so with roux, you have a smaller sample size of people who practice a lot and get fast, so it is harder to tell which method is faster
the only way we would know for sure if roux or CFOP was better would be if we had 2 groups of about 100 people, one group using roux, and one group using CFOP, none of them would have had any experience with cubing whatsoever, and they would all have to start cubing on the same day, practicing the same amount each day, every day, and see who get's faster.

 

[Astral cubing]

Personally if I knew of roux before cfop I would of used roux but cfop wa much easier to transfer to from lbl.
By the time I heard of roux I had heard too many people tell me, “don’t learn roux”, “ roux is trash”. Which just discouraged me .

 

[Daxton Brumfield]

Lol, I feel like this thread has turned people a little bit toxic. Can we all just agree that just because a method may seem far superior to you, it may be awful for somebody with a different mindset, turning style, and all round goals. Some people like to use different, or even obscure methods just because they often provide a unique solving experience, or it produces better times for them. One method will ever be superior to other methods for everyone and I think everyone should accept that. I don't think that any top level roux solvers would enjoy cfop as much, and weather or not it would improve their times is a totally different topic which somebody should start a separate thread for because I think that that would be very interesting. All in all I feel like making statements like ____ would be faster if they used ____ method is just an unreasonable thing to assume, and if you really feel that way then maybe try addressing that person somehow, and then you can get their perspective. That is just what I think, but feel free to tell me your opinion.

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

Lol, I feel like this thread has turned people a little bit toxic. Can we all just agree that just because a method may seem far superior to you, it may be awful for somebody with a different mindset, turning style, and all round goals. Some people like to use different, or even obscure methods just because they often provide a unique solving experience, or it produces better times for them. One method will ever be superior to other methods for everyone and I think everyone should accept that. I don't think that any top level roux solvers would enjoy cfop as much, and weather or not it would improve their times is a totally different topic which somebody should start a separate thread for because I think that that would be very interesting. All in all I feel like making statements like ____ would be faster if they used ____ method is just an unreasonable thing to assume, and if you really feel that way then maybe try addressing that person somehow, and then you can get their perspective. That is just what I think, but feel free to tell me your opinion.

I hope I wasn’t being unreasonable. I was trying to say that it’s cool that Sean Patrick got a good average with roux, and then later I tried to maintain that I think they are equal methods. I agree that it went too far, but I also think that some constructive discussion can teach us about the methods themselves, so I don’t think this is altogether bad

 

[RouxCuber]

I hope I wasn’t being unreasonable. I was trying to say that it’s cool that Sean Patrick got a good average with roux, and then later I tried to maintain that I think they are equal methods. I agree that it went too far, but I also think that some constructive discussion can teach us about the methods themselves, so I don’t think this is altogether bad

ok so going back to the topic that this thread was meant for, Kian's kind of regressing at this point (pretty sad, but we have to give him credit for trying; it is very hard to keep moving at that level). Sean's 6.42 avg doesnt undermine Kian; it's just a pretty nice step contributing to the Rouxvolution.