Group solving, and case reduction.

[Jorghi]

Please, post some example solves

Scramble: F2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 F2 L D' R F R2 D L' F' L' (21 f)


EOLine: F D' L2 R2 F R D' (7 moves)
First Block: U L' D F2 R' L2 D R B2 L2 F2 D' L' (13f*)
Second Block: R2 D L D' R2 D L' D' (8f*)

21 Moves for F2L


Had to improvise how to use cube explorer.

 

[Cubenovice]

Scramble: F2 U' B2 F2 D' R2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 F2 L D' R F R2 D L' F' L' (21 f)


EOLine: F D' L2 R2 F R D' (7 moves)
First Block: U L' D F2 R' L2 D R B2 L2 F2 D' L' (13f*)
Second Block: R2 D L D' R2 D L' D' (8f*)

Had to improvise how to use cube explorer.

I rest my case...

 

[tozies24]

Why don't you just say that this is similiar to Roux where you make the "first two blocks" but that is after you make a line on the bottom? I mean, that is basically what you are doing. I don't see the point in wasting moves to get EOLine when I could just get a line and then proceed to finish the first two layers. Just some constructive criticism for "your" method.

 

[Jorghi]

But then it would double the Block Algorithms(Multislotting). All the way up to about 80+.

 

[uberCuber]

Had to improvise how to use cube explorer.

Lolololololololol

Cubenovice wanted to see a solve how you would do it, not how Cube Explorer would do it.

 

[Rpotts]

yea as soon as i saw (13f*) I quit reading.

 

[Jorghi]

Another example solve: But doing left then right, instead of front then back.

Scramble:F L2 D F' D R2 U' D L' R F' L' R B U' F2 R' B2 F2 U' D' R B2 R' U'

EOLine: F U' R' B L R' D (7 Moves)

Left Block: L2 F2 L D R2 D' L F2 (8 Moves)

Right Block: R2 F' U' R' U2 R U F2 R F' (10 Moves)

Total: 18 Moves for F2L
Whole First 2 Layers: 25 Moves.

I can't do it I don't know any of the algs

 

[Cubenovice]

Jorghi, check out this improvement on your method:


Scramble: U D2 F2 R2 D L' R B U' F' R' B R' F' B2 U2 B' U D' L D2 U' B U2 F2

Pseudo ZZ
U B' D2 B2 (EO line) 4
D' R D R D2 L2 D L' (2 pseudo blocks) 12
D' R D R' (insert pair) 16
D' L D L' D L D' L' (insert pair makes pseudo F2L) 25
D2 L2 R2 (turn into regular F2L) 28
R U R' U R U2 R' (Sune) 34
V-perm

ZZ intuition
same first 16 moves = pseudo F2L-1
D2 L D L' D2 R2 L2 leaves 3 corners (23) forget about algs
U2 F U' B2 U F U' B2 U (32)
Done

 

[Jorghi]

Jorghi, check out this improvement on your method:


Scramble: U D2 F2 R2 D L' R B U' F' R' B R' F' B2 U2 B' U D' L D2 U' B U2 F2

Pseudo ZZ
U B' D2 B2 (EO line) 4
D' R D R D2 L2 D L' (2 pseudo blocks) 12
D' R D R' (insert pair) 16
D' L D L' D L D' L' (insert pair makes pseudo F2L) 25
D2 L2 R2 (turn into regular F2L) 28
R U R' U R U2 R' (Sune) 34
V-perm

ZZ intuition
same first 16 moves = pseudo F2L-1
D2 L D L' D2 R2 L2 leaves 3 corners (23) forget about algs
U2 F U' B2 U F U' B2 U (32)
Done

I tried your ZZ intuition. I think this is the algorithm you were using for the last step.
U2 F U' B2 U F' U' B2 U' (9f)

What are you doing in the last step? Are you doing it intuitively? Wouldn't that make the solve slower??? And why are you storing the blocks upside down? Wouldn't that ruin look ahead?

This is speed solving! Not FMC!

 

[RyanReese09]

The last thing he does is just a commutator. Nothing special.

And lol

This is speed solving! Not FMC!

 

[Godmil]

Jorghi's threads are always entertaining. So basically you're proposing an algorithmic way of learning ZZ block building? There may not be anything inherintly wrong with that. I'll question your alg count though cause I think you based it off a CFOP multi slotting site, but after EOLine you have 10 rather than 8 posible positions for the edges to be.

 

[Andrew Ricci]

Jorghi, why do you assume that just because something is intuitive means that it can't be fast? And that pseudo-blocks are only for FMC? They can be used quite effectively in Roux. Here's an example:

 

[Cubenovice]

I tried your ZZ intuition. I think this is the algorithm you were using for the last step.
U2 F U' B2 U F' U' B2 U' (9f)

You didn't think, you read it in my solution...

Solving last three corners is just a corner cycle.
In this case however it is also a wel know OLL.
I am very dissapointed that you cannot even recognise headlights OLL when it is not on the U-face

And why are you storing the blocks upside down? Wouldn't that ruin look ahead?

What if I tell you that you increase your chances of getting easy cases / shorter algs this way?
I did not decide upfront to go for these blocks, I just took the easy blocks.
Not hard at all if you stick to "double turn" blocks, just treat U / D colors as the same.

This is speed solving! Not FMC!

Is it?
Perhaps you should edit your method post.

 

[5BLD]

I tried your ZZ intuition. I think this is the algorithm you were using for the last step.
U2 F U' B2 U F' U' B2 U' (9f)

What are you doing in the last step? Are you doing it intuitively? Wouldn't that make the solve slower??? And why are you storing the blocks upside down? Wouldn't that ruin look ahead?

This is speed solving! Not FMC!

Hahah, it sometimes makes the solve more efficient, as you saw in thom's NM solve. And finish with R2 at the end.
Btw, as others have stated, it's a commutator!

 

[Jorghi]

Yeah but is solving like that trying to get a world record even likely!! 2 Look F2L is better than going over board with the intuition and efficiency!! Time wasted by making decisions on what to do!
The less thinking the faster the method! And you might say your blockbuilding blah blah is very intuitive. But I bet if you've practiced it enough you know it like muscle memory. Just like the OLLs and PLLs!!
CFOP F2L soon becomes, just look at the case, solve it, look at next case, solve it.

 

[Phlippieskezer]

It makes me lol that anybody would think something is slow because it uses intuition. Seriously... Just... No. I'm a Roux solver (who has had sub-10's) and I resent this idea.

And intuition tends to come naturally without actually having to pause and 'make decisions.' It would take longer trying to recognise the case and applying the algorithm than to just do it intuitively. Plus, you've seen the case so many times (with practice), it basically comes as muscle memory and you don't have to waste your time learning an algorithm.

You say you go "overboard" with intuition, but that really makes no sense. It's far more overboard to try and learn algorithms for every possible case possible.

Smooth solve > Fast fingertricks due to algorithms, but tonnes of pauses because of recognition.

 

[5BLD]

Yeah but is solving like that trying to get a world record even likely!! 2 Look F2L is better than going over board with the intuition and efficiency!! Time wasted by making decisions on what to do!
The less thinking the faster the method! And you might say your blockbuilding blah blah is very intuitive. But I bet if you've practiced it enough you know it like muscle memory. Just like the OLLs and PLLs!!
CFOP F2L soon becomes, just look at the case, solve it, look at next case, solve it.

And... After a while efficiency and intuition goes into your subconscious.
You're becoming like I used to be. Except the opposite; against blockbuilding, oh and negative too whilst I was, dare I say, over-positive.

Look, intuition and efficiency WILL eventually become better. With practice, it will go into your subconscious...

And more algs the better? What kind of argument is that? I see what you're trying to say but... Isn't it better to also have a bit of common sense to... Say... Divert from your method when the opportunity arises?
Rather than stick rigidly to the method, without using any common sense?

By the way, I'm sub-15 Roux, every other day sub-14. Oh and personally I suck at algorithms. I can't sub-3 half the cmlls...

EDIT: Oh look what I found in your post. Nice to see you contradicting yourself.

But I bet if you've practiced it enough you know it like muscle memory. Just like the OLLs and PLLs!! ---> actually, for me, I find that they stick better than algorithms.
CFOP F2L soon becomes, just look at the case, solve it, look at next case, solve it. ---> and yeah, so does the skill of optimising cases.

 

[aronpm]

Yeah but is solving like that trying to get a world record even likely!! 2 Look F2L is better than going over board with the intuition and efficiency!! Time wasted by making decisions on what to do!
The less thinking the faster the method! And you might say your blockbuilding blah blah is very intuitive. But I bet if you've practiced it enough you know it like muscle memory. Just like the OLLs and PLLs!!
CFOP F2L soon becomes, just look at the case, solve it, look at next case, solve it.

Let's pretend there's a method for an event which is almost completely intuitive and much more efficient than the most common methods the event. It's also much faster than the most common methods.

Oh wait, there already is this method, it's called 3-cycles/BH and it's a blindsolving method. Oh, and it's used for world records too.

 

[Cubenovice]

Yeah but is solving like that trying to get a world record even likely!!

Just as likely as with your 2-look F2L.

 

[NaeosPsy]

You should look again at algorithm count for 2-look F2L, Jorghi.