F2L Help (not new to it)

[byu]

Bump and a new update I want feedback on.

This is my current goal that I think I will stop at basically. My goal for "speedcubing" is like, sub-25. Maybe an average of 20s. I think I can achieve this with PLL and OLL memorized as well as a good F2L.

However, I am REALLY considering going through all of the algorithms and just memorizing those F2L's. The downsides are what? I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25? I am improving some from 3 weeks ago when I started learning F2L, but its so minimal that its VERY discouraging.

I might change my mind in 6 months or so when I get this stuff down, but by then I should have my sub-25 (if I am correct) and I think I am plenty smart enough to be understanding how F2L works by then.

Any BIG things I missed on that F2L learning? I can learn like 1-2 a day and there's really only 10-12 I need right? Again, sub-25 is kind of what I am shooting for and I don't think I necessarily need multi-slotting/empty-slot technique down 100% for that if I have all the PLL's and OLL's right?

No, if you want algorithms, you have to memorize 41 algs. Don't be discouraged if your F2L times have not dropped dramatically from only a week or two of practicing. The more you practice F2L, the faster you will be, and in my opinion, if you want to memorize algs, work on full PLL.

Sub-25 is possible with a fast F2L and one-look PLL, same goes for sub-20, I know that some cubers have gotten sub-20 averages without full OLL. If you want sub-25, try and get a sub-15 F2L (cross included) and a sub-10 LL.

 

[Johannes91]

I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25?

Sub-25 doesn't require anything advanced. Even a beginner LBL with 7-look LL is enough, times depend more on the cuber than the method.

 

[Weiseguy]

No, if you want algorithms, you have to memorize 41 algs. Don't be discouraged if your F2L times have not dropped dramatically from only a week or two of practicing. The more you practice F2L, the faster you will be, and in my opinion, if you want to memorize algs, work on full PLL.

Sub-25 is possible with a fast F2L and one-look PLL, same goes for sub-20, I know that some cubers have gotten sub-20 averages without full OLL. If you want sub-25, try and get a sub-15 F2L (cross included) and a sub-10 LL.

Well I meant out of the 41 cases, some are them are like, wow you are retarded if you don't see how to solve that.

Idk man, its just, discouraging like I said when I see myself getting a 30-50sec time on cross + F2L.

I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25?

Sub-25 doesn't require anything advanced. Even a beginner LBL with 7-look LL is enough, times depend more on the cuber than the method.

I find it VERY difficult to think of someone with beginners method getting sub-25....

 

[byu]

I've heard of sub-30 with beginner method, but I average around 40 seconds with it. Definitely work on F2L, it's the hardest step to master, even though its the easiest to do (well, I guess the cross is easiest, so second easiest)

 

[Weiseguy]

I've heard of sub-30 with beginner method, but I average around 40 seconds with it. Definitely work on F2L, it's the hardest step to master, even though its the easiest to do (well, I guess the cross is easiest, so second easiest)

Well I plan to, but thats why I said maybe go with algorithmic F2L. I mean, really, memorizing things isn't too hard for me. I learned 4L-LL in like..4hours.

 

[JLarsen]

Bump and a new update I want feedback on.

This is my current goal that I think I will stop at basically. My goal for "speedcubing" is like, sub-25. Maybe an average of 20s. I think I can achieve this with PLL and OLL memorized as well as a good F2L.

However, I am REALLY considering going through all of the algorithms and just memorizing those F2L's. The downsides are what? I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25? I am improving some from 3 weeks ago when I started learning F2L, but its so minimal that its VERY discouraging.

I might change my mind in 6 months or so when I get this stuff down, but by then I should have my sub-25 (if I am correct) and I think I am plenty smart enough to be understanding how F2L works by then.

Any BIG things I missed on that F2L learning? I can learn like 1-2 a day and there's really only 10-12 I need right? Again, sub-25 is kind of what I am shooting for and I don't think I necessarily need multi-slotting/empty-slot technique down 100% for that if I have all the PLL's and OLL's right?

So much of speedsolving is breaking down barriers. When you hit a barrier, you have to have the determination to break through it, and sometimes it will take a month or even multiple months to improve. It's all a matter of drive, and you are just in your starting stages. If you don't like it now, wait until 25, when you still want to improve. The speed that you improve in is exponentially decreasing as you get better. You're not going to improve in a few days. You shouldn't be seeing any real improvement from the time you started this thread to now. It took me 4 months to get from 29, to 17. 3 of those months being after i hit 25 ish. Eventually you'll see the only answer to improvement is solid, consistent, optimistic, practice.

 

[Weiseguy]

Bump and a new update I want feedback on.

This is my current goal that I think I will stop at basically. My goal for "speedcubing" is like, sub-25. Maybe an average of 20s. I think I can achieve this with PLL and OLL memorized as well as a good F2L.

However, I am REALLY considering going through all of the algorithms and just memorizing those F2L's. The downsides are what? I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25? I am improving some from 3 weeks ago when I started learning F2L, but its so minimal that its VERY discouraging.

I might change my mind in 6 months or so when I get this stuff down, but by then I should have my sub-25 (if I am correct) and I think I am plenty smart enough to be understanding how F2L works by then.

Any BIG things I missed on that F2L learning? I can learn like 1-2 a day and there's really only 10-12 I need right? Again, sub-25 is kind of what I am shooting for and I don't think I necessarily need multi-slotting/empty-slot technique down 100% for that if I have all the PLL's and OLL's right?

So much of speedsolving is breaking down barriers. When you hit a barrier, you have to have the determination to break through it, and sometimes it will take a month or even multiple months to improve. It's all a matter of drive, and you are just in your starting stages. If you don't like it now, wait until 25, when you still want to improve. The speed that you improve in is exponentially decreasing as you get better. You're not going to improve in a few days. You shouldn't be seeing any real improvement from the time you started this thread to now. It took me 4 months to get from 29, to 17. 3 of those months being after i hit 25 ish. Eventually you'll see the only answer to improvement is solid, consistent, optimistic, practice.

I almost was considering switching to petrus....

See my thing is that everything in life has come easy to me when it comes to learning. like, all of school, easy as hell. 100% in my hardest classes, have had 4.6gpa for the last couple years, and its just really pissing me off that I suck at F2L. Like, just now I did F2L + cross in 36s (cross was a little slow) but my LL was 13 secs for all 4 looks.

It's just annoying that everything thus far has been so easy (including the 4L-LL) and now I'm screwed

EDIT: 45s F2L + cross (slow cross again though, 5-7s maybe instead of seeing an easy move for like 3s cross?).

EDIT 2: Okay, so with a decent cross I'm getting like 35s with Cross + F2L

 

[JLarsen]

Bump and a new update I want feedback on.

This is my current goal that I think I will stop at basically. My goal for "speedcubing" is like, sub-25. Maybe an average of 20s. I think I can achieve this with PLL and OLL memorized as well as a good F2L.

However, I am REALLY considering going through all of the algorithms and just memorizing those F2L's. The downsides are what? I don't get the "intuitiveness" of multi-slotting and/or use of empty slots, but is that needed for sub-25? I am improving some from 3 weeks ago when I started learning F2L, but its so minimal that its VERY discouraging.

I might change my mind in 6 months or so when I get this stuff down, but by then I should have my sub-25 (if I am correct) and I think I am plenty smart enough to be understanding how F2L works by then.

Any BIG things I missed on that F2L learning? I can learn like 1-2 a day and there's really only 10-12 I need right? Again, sub-25 is kind of what I am shooting for and I don't think I necessarily need multi-slotting/empty-slot technique down 100% for that if I have all the PLL's and OLL's right?

So much of speedsolving is breaking down barriers. When you hit a barrier, you have to have the determination to break through it, and sometimes it will take a month or even multiple months to improve. It's all a matter of drive, and you are just in your starting stages. If you don't like it now, wait until 25, when you still want to improve. The speed that you improve in is exponentially decreasing as you get better. You're not going to improve in a few days. You shouldn't be seeing any real improvement from the time you started this thread to now. It took me 4 months to get from 29, to 17. 3 of those months being after i hit 25 ish. Eventually you'll see the only answer to improvement is solid, consistent, optimistic, practice.

I almost was considering switching to petrus....

See my thing is that everything in life has come easy to me when it comes to learning. like, all of school, easy as hell. 100% in my hardest classes, have had 4.6gpa for the last couple years, and its just really pissing me off that I suck at F2L. Like, just now I did F2L + cross in 36s (cross was a little slow) but my LL was 13 secs for all 4 looks.

It's just annoying that everything thus far has been so easy (including the 4L-LL) and now I'm screwed

EDIT: 45s F2L + cross (slow cross again though, 5-7s maybe instead of seeing an easy move for like 3s cross?).

I switched to Petrus because I was bored with making crosses.

How long have you been cubing?

 

[Johannes91]

How long have you been cubing?

From his profile: "Cubing since December of 2008". I wonder why so many people think that cubing is really easy and shouldn't take more than a few months or so to get really good at.

 

[Weiseguy]

Since end of December...started with Dan Brown's beginner method. Hated it and was sooo bored. Went to Badmephistos beginner method for a week, about mid January. Learned 4L-LL that weekend. F2L from then till now, so I'd say January 16th till now I've been "Cubing", before it was like 1:30 solves just because people at school thought it was cool.

EDIT:

5: 00:45.39 x
4: 00:54.05 x
3: 00:42.29 x
2: 00:52.95 x
1: 00:50.05 x

My last one was good (felt slow too)

Idk, I'll stick with it because my friend at school is competing with me for speed solves. Just discouraging when I look at my cubemania profile (Weiseguy) and see a steep slope down, a little more down, then a bigger slope up with these new solves.

EDIT 2: Okay so I think I found my issue....just did a solve with a 20s F2L (which isn't too bad right? I think I had a mistake too). Maybe my cross is the slow part? 21s on the second solve....weird. Maybe it is my cross. Average of 5 on F2L with cross already solved and 3 sec inspection just so I can grab the cube again. 21.49s. Is that decent then?

EDIT 3:

Okay so yeah, averaging 22s on the F2L without Cross. 11.36s on the 4L-LL.....cross is the issue? I was solving it on bottom with slow times, solving on top with faster, but still slow i think. maybe I'll just time my cross now?

EDIT 4:

Cross Times:

7: 00:07.72 x
6: 00:09.75 x
5: 00:07.84 x
4: 00:06.84 x
3: 00:14.16 x
2: 00:07.10 x
1: 00:06.36 x

F2L:

19.85
18.83 (1 mistake)
31.31 (1 small mistake, 2 bad cases, one of which was the mistake)
22.19 (small mistake, U' instead of U)
27.23 (1 bad case)


OLL:

3.08 (1 look, didn't need to solve yellow cross first)
5.92 (2 Looks)
6.82 (2 Looks)
4.99 (2 Looks)
7.5 (2 Looks)

PLL:

5.89 (1-Look, didn't need E or A perm).
12.79 (Damn E perm was hard to learn, I'm slow on it)
9.79 (With H perm, which I don't like as much, lol).
7.95 (2 Looks, not bad had A with Clockwise cycle)
8.49 (Same as previous, just slower).

Full Solve:

Just got a 47.26 solve.....all 4 looks with a slow cross (I thought)
45.39
46.1
45.67
42.29
47.18

Note: I did the crosses all at once, Cross, mix, cross, mix, etc. For F2L/OLL/PLL I started with cross, started timer with 3 sec inspection to simulate my grabbing of cube and finishing last part of previous step. I stopped time after F2L, recorded it, Stopped after OLL, recorded, Solves with PLL, recorded then started new scramble.

 

[shoot1510]

Try Dan Kights fridrich method.
http://dan.knights.googlepages.com/cube-index.html

 

[JLarsen]

You're issue is cubemania. That site can drive you insane, I would NEVER use that, because I too would feel terrible not seeing a completely constant line down. You're doing fine, you're just analyzing yourself too much.

 

[Weiseguy]

You're issue is cubemania. That site can drive you insane, I would NEVER use that, because I too would feel terrible not seeing a completely constant line down. You're doing fine, you're just analyzing yourself too much.

Well that last post kind of surprised me when I noticed that my F2L isnt too bad, but it scared me to see that my cross was slow as hell. 8s average is bad isnt it?

Forgot to mention I also have my own excel sheet showing progress. January 20th I had 1min. January 21st I had 50secs. February (checks date), I have 41s LBL with 4L-LL and 42s F2L with 4L-LL

 

[JLarsen]

You're issue is cubemania. That site can drive you insane, I would NEVER use that, because I too would feel terrible not seeing a completely constant line down. You're doing fine, you're just analyzing yourself too much.

Well that last post kind of surprised me when I noticed that my F2L isnt too bad, but it scared me to see that my cross was slow as hell. 8s average is bad isnt it?
Forgot to mention I also have my own excel sheet showing progress. January 20th I had 1min. January 21st I had 50secs. February (checks date), I have 41s LBL with 4L-LL and 42s F2L with 4L-LL

Okay, so you've found your weakness, now quit analyzing,(and timing it) or you're just going to discourage yourself more. Go to cubetimer.com, do the scramble on the screen,then solve the cross untimed, to the best of your ability(with it on the bottom), and then double tap the spacebar, repeat as many times as needed, like 25 times a day or more.

 

[Weiseguy]

You're issue is cubemania. That site can drive you insane, I would NEVER use that, because I too would feel terrible not seeing a completely constant line down. You're doing fine, you're just analyzing yourself too much.

Well that last post kind of surprised me when I noticed that my F2L isnt too bad, but it scared me to see that my cross was slow as hell. 8s average is bad isnt it?
Forgot to mention I also have my own excel sheet showing progress. January 20th I had 1min. January 21st I had 50secs. February (checks date), I have 41s LBL with 4L-LL and 42s F2L with 4L-LL

Okay, so you've found your weakness, now quit analyzing,(and timing it) or you're just going to discourage yourself more. Go to cubetimer.com, do the scramble on the screen,then solve the cross untimed, to the best of your ability(with it on the bottom), and then double tap the spacebar, repeat as many times as needed, like 25 times a day or more.

So bored

I did just that after posting for another hour.

Today's schedule made me laugh looking back.

6:30am wake up
6:35am-7:45am Cube/Forums
8am Eat breakfast
8:15am-3pm (pretty much straight) cube/forums
3pm-3:30pm, TV
4pm-7pm Cube on and off while on PC/forums
7pm-8pm Sit around, eat dinner, tv, etc.
8pm-Sleep (9pm, getting up at 5am tomorrow) Cube/forums

This is my schedule almost every saturday/sunday

School week is more like, school, cube at school for about an hour total (Throughout 8hr day), get home, PC/forums and cube until dinner/sleep.

New schedule will be 1 solve for every 10 crosses on bottom.

 

[Weiseguy]

Good morning all. As I showered before school, I just thought of something.

My times seem to be sub-25 if I could get my cross to 5s or less like it should be.

Here's my logic:

5s cross (or less)
19-20s F2L
10-15s 4LLL

If I learned all of the PLLs and OLLs, thats what, 2-3s for LL correct (after I am faster that is?)

This puts me sub 25 woot, lol.

 

[holypasta]

don't bother learning all F2L cases. maybe just some of the really tricky ones. and you don't need to DO anything to get fast at intuitive F2L. just practice.

 

[abr71310]

A good set of advice from what I was told when I was a n00b at F2L was:

Look at the pieces you need to solve INDIVIDUALLY (so say, after cross, you see the Corner and Edge for the FR slot), memorize how it's going to go in, and then close your eyes and do what you think it's supposed to be.

If you're right, hooray, you actually know intuitive F2L! -- in which case, all you need to do then is practice your turning speed -- a metronome works well for this.

If you're wrong, think about what was supposed to happen. Use the same scramble, same cross, whatever, and do the same pair NOT BLINDFOLDED -- if you watch what mistakes you make you are less likely to make it again, and you learn a case in your subconscious mind that helps you solve it for next time!

hope this helps
-- left handed (right wrist = broken) OH cuber

 

[Cride5]

Tip for better lookahead on F2L - concentrate on the corner first, then its edge. This is particularly pertinent on ZZ solves, since the orientation of edges is already fixed. Finding a corner tells you a lot about what case you're dealing with. Sometimes I'll find a corner, and position it for pairing before I've found the edge.

If you're using ZZ and want to train exclusively on F2L you can re-scramble using just R U L moves to bring you back to the end of EOLine phase. I spent a whole day just doing F2L, scramble with RUL, F2L, scramble with RUL, etc, etc, ...yet another great thing about ZZ for Fridrich users to envy

 

[Nevrino]

Your progress looks almost exactly like my was, first i felt frustrated and almost gave up cause of no progress in f2l then i suddenly dropped 10 s or so. By then my avg was 22 S on f2l without cross, then i worked my f2l down to avg 12s now in like 1,5 month since then. But dont expect to avg 20 s or so in next month cuz after 40 s you decrease ur times slower and slower. What u need is patience =)

When i had 22s on the f2l(excluding cross) my total time was like 50 s or so, now 1,5 month later i avg 30 s so maybe u can expect something like that.