Dayan Vs Verdes Petition

[Stefan]

It must have been 6 years ago when NEWCUBES posted on the TwistyPuzzles forum, something many of you may not know even exists.

First I believe about 7.5 years ago in emails:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/message/5194

 

[HavoCentral]

Connor Glenn is signature number 500!!!!

 

[Quadrescence]

First I believe about 7.5 years ago in emails:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/speedsolvingrubikscube/message/5194

Oh yes, I forgot about Yahoo groups. Thanks for that.

 

[uberCuber]

2x2-11x22.

I have seen no such thing.

 

[HavoCentral]

I have seen no such thing.

Doesn't Oskar have a 2x2x20ish?
I forgot the exact size.

EDIT:2x2x23

 

[CubesOfTheWorld]

Doesn't Oskar have a 2x2x20ish?
I forgot the exact size.

Cooldayr is making a 2x2x20 or something like that. I saw it at nationals.

 

[souljahsu]

<.< I made an avatar for this.

Sorry it's kind of small, I can't figure out how to enlarge it.

anyway it says "We are not a cube-making company, but a cube-suing company."

 

[JustinJ]

I have seen no such thing.

It really annoys me that you would focus on such an insignificant little mistake rather than the stuff he points out.

<.< I made an avatar for this.

Sorry it's kind of small, I can't figure out how to enlarge it.

anyway it says "We are not a cube-making company, but a cube-suing company."

Are you actually serious? Have you forgotten all the good that V-Cubes has done for speedcubing?

 

[souljahsu]

It really annoys me that you would focus on such an insignificant little mistake rather than the stuff he points out.



Are you actually serious? Have you forgotten all the good that V-Cubes has done for speedcubing?

Sorry I actually don't know what good V-Cubes did to speedcubing. I only started cubing earlier this year.

Can someone tell me?

 

[Whyusosrs?]

<.< I made an avatar for this.

Sorry it's kind of small, I can't figure out how to enlarge it.

anyway it says "We are not a cube-making company, but a cube-suing company."

Erm. ERM.

They make cubes, mang. Their 7x7 is still considered very good. Verdes was one of (if not the first) to pillow a cube. I disagree with the supposed removal of guhong sales on ebay, but you guys are really taking this too far.

 

[Whyusosrs?]

I'm sorry for the double post, but this is needed.

Sorry I actually don't know what good V-Cubes did to speedcubing. I only started cubing earlier this year.

Can someone tell me?

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT V-CUBES HAS DONE BUT YOU WILL PUBLICLY BASH THEM? Please, please, please, read this post.

View attachment 1385
Mr. Panagiotis Verdes

​

It must have been 6 years ago when NEWCUBES posted on the TwistyPuzzles forum, something many of you may not know even exists.

The statement made was bold. There was a link to a website, olympicubes.com, with CGI of 2x2 through 11x11, with specifications and such.

Many were skeptical.

I remember with utter clarity the ambition people had to design and materialize 6x6x6 and higher cubes. I recall one person successfully making a 7x7x7 by extending a 3x3x3, but the design was not very solid. Successful nonetheless, and it was huge news! Pochmann also had designs, I believe he had a "pin" design. I think a few others did too.

Skepticism rose significantly when only promises were made by Mr. Verdes but nothing showed for the next several years. I think I can accurately say that most people lost hope in it.

Then Verdes came back with promises fulfilled. He successfully made the cubes. Not only that, he made them well. After lots of due hype, they were finally being shipped out. I bought one of each, and even made an unboxing and review. I was extremely excited, more excited than my first sub-60 on a 3x3.

I didn't care if they were going to turn like ****. I'd be happiest if they at least worked. But to my surprise, Verdes not only made the cubes, but they were a delight to turn. They were wonderful.

Those 6+ years of hard work really paid off. The design was novel, and inspired (iirc) designs for the teraminx and stuff.

Now, we have nice 3x3s made by other people. If Dayan's cubes use the design Verdes invented up to affine transformation, then Verdes has every right to pursue legal action. Verdes worked hard. If I were him, I'd do the same.

I do admit I am not an expert on Dayan cubes nor their design. So I am not necessarily saying Verdes is right. But I am saying that if his designs were used in the 3x3 Dayan manufactures, as specified not by the pictures in Verdes' patent, but by the mathematical descriptions, then Verdes should triumph.

To all of you 14 year old pretend-experts on law, patents, and cube design, I hope you keep your mouth shut until you get your facts straight. I also hope you people don't just mindlessly boycott Verdes just because he is taking action against a product you might like.

I think 6 years ago, any sane person would trade every one of their 3x3s for a single 7x7. But most newcomers seem to not fully realize what Verdes introduced to the world, so they will easily reject his work, so long as they still have their 7x7 their mom bought them.

Do you understand now? Verdes made high-order cubes possible and mass-produced them.

 

[Meep]

Sorry I actually don't know what good V-Cubes did to speedcubing. I only started cubing earlier this year.

Can someone tell me?

They're the reason we have the pretty darn good 5x5s, 6x6s, and 7x7s we have today. Previously, we had crappy 5x5s, and pretty much no 6x6s and 7x7s.

 

[HavoCentral]

If this is what I think is, than it looks nothing like Dayan cubes.

I honestly do not see how that could be a good cube. The way the centers overlap the corners has to limit corner cutting a lot. :/

 

[Meep]

I honestly do not see how that could be a good cube. The way the centers overlap the corners has to limit corner cutting a lot. :/

Look at how the V5 mechanism works.

 

[HavoCentral]

Look at how the V5 mechanism works.

I have a YJ 5, and the outer corners cut well but to cut double double, is hard. Like a Uu(1 cubie turn) Rr cut.

 

[~Adam~]

If you cut like that on the V you can get pretty bad lock up, but more like layers overlapping each other and nothing can move.

 

[Godmil]

I have a concern that the petition may not represent the opinion of the majority of signers.
I was under the impression that most people on these boards were generally against knock offs, that they had no problem with Verdes trying to protect their design against companies like YJ... And that the reason most people are upset is that they don't agree that Dayan are using the V-cube design, so it is unjust to block their sale.
Does that sound about right?
Now, my concern is with the viewpoint the petition writer has pushed in there... HavoCentral has made it clear in other posts that he completely supports knock offs in all cube sizes, and that V-cube has no right at all to protect their patent. Which is 'clearly' seen in this line from the petition: "V-Cube is notorious for taking good cubes off the market for because they are doing well." To me that reads like V-cube have no right to protect even their 7x7 design, and their attempts to protect them are purely malicious.
Is that really the opinion of everyone who's signed it... Or have they just signed this because it's the only place they feel they can vent their frustration on the Guhong incident?
Personally I think a new and better worded petition should be started.

 

[CubesOfTheWorld]

Verdes makes very high quality cubes with a good, original mechanism. I just think that they should at least make the V-Cube 3 before they take away one of the greatest (if not the greatest) speedcubes on the market. I don't even think that the GuHong corner is similar enough to the V-Cube corner piece. The fact that it comes in separate parts and that there is a stalk on it doesn't make it similar enough to the V-Cube corner. I'm nearly positive that the owner of DaYan looked at the V-Cube corner and tried to replicate that into a 3x3, while trying to evade the copyright infringement.

 

[Meep]

I have a YJ 5, and the outer corners cut well but to cut double double, is hard. Like a Uu(1 cubie turn) Rr cut.

From my experience with the YJ 5, the springs are horrible and affect the tolerance of it.

If you cut like that on the V you can get pretty bad lock up, but more like layers overlapping each other and nothing can move.

The reason that crazy lockup is possible is because it -can- do said cutting, but the extra layers get caught. The V3 wouldn't have these extra layers.

 

[~Adam~]

I have a concern that the petition may not represent the opinion of the majority of signers.
I was under the impression that most people on these boards were generally against knock offs, that they had no problem with Verdes trying to protect their design against companies like YJ... And that the reason most people are upset is that they don't agree that Dayan are using the V-cube design, so it is unjust to block their sale.
Does that sound about right?
Now, my concern is with the viewpoint the petition writer has pushed in there... HavoCentral has made it clear in other posts that he completely supports knock offs in all cube sizes, and that V-cube has no right at all to protect their patent. Which is 'clearly' seen in this line from the petition: "V-Cube is notorious for taking good cubes off the market for because they are doing well." To me that reads like V-cube have no right to protect even their 7x7 design, and their attempts to protect them are purely malicious.
Is that really the opinion of everyone who's signed it... Or have they just signed this because it's the only place they feel they can vent their frustration on the Guhong incident?
Personally I think a new and better worded petition should be started.

I'm completely in agreement with the 1st bold sentence.

I for one own a YJ 5 but it was only because it was so cheap and I was annoyed that shipping from V was 50% of the cost of the cube. Shortly after I ordered another V-5 (I already had one) from PUZL which arrived the next day and cheaper than it would've been from Greece.
I bought the YJ 4 with every intention of getting a V-4 when it was released (until this happened).
I wouldn't say that I support KOs because buying them is in no way going to effect my spending on the 'original' puzzles.

I completely agree that a new petition needs to be started which conveys the view and the signers (?) better.