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Color Neutral: Yes, No, Tried and Quit, Never Tried

qwr

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people have talked about dual CN but I don't see how that's any easier than just doing full CN?
 

OreKehStrah

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people have talked about dual CN but I don't see how that's any easier than just doing full CN?
I think the main appeal for white solvers to do DC is that the brain is already used to filtering ROBG as F2L/Side colors so the brain is used to filtering out white or yellow to end up on UD so it’s easier on the brain to just flip the two over than get accustomed to those colors being on the side.
 

GenTheThief

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As a ZZer, full CN is a lot harder than for a CFOPer, since you have only 6 different ways to be CN and I would have 24: 3 different EO choices (xy), 4 different line/cross choices (z), and 2 different ways to fingertrick (y2).

Currently, I only sometimes use y2 neutrality, which I only do when I have a bunch of bad edges on the back of the cube and the fingertricks aren't nice-- I'll spin around to the other side and execute them from the "new" front with nicer finger tricks (this maybe happens 1/200 solves). For the most part however, I'm completely fixed.

Most ZZers recommend being able to be y neutral so that you have access to a second EO if your first one has a lot of bad edges. This has a similar advantage to DCN for CFOP in that you get a second option without changing the up/down colors for any of the colors on the y axis.
Recently, ZZers have been recommending full x2y like in roux, but I don't think it's really worth it. Unless you do all the different colors at the same frequency (as opposed to switching to them only when your main color is bad), then not having any of the colors in the correct position really messes you up. As it is, I can't even stand y2 neutrality and mess up both my line and AUF's all the time. I can't imagine trying to get used to having them inverted with yellow down.


However, this does come from the perspective of someone who has been solving fixed for 5+ years. If someone is new to the method, then getting used to things CN would almost certainly be better as you can always pick the best case which should lead to more efficient, faster solves.
 

EngiNerdBrian

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I always felt doing dual color neutral with white and yellow was hard; I know others find it easier than a completely different color though. When solving yellow I'd sometimes revert back to my white color scheme/recognition tactics and pair f2l pairs with the edge misoriented. I found working on green, shrek cross, to be easier and more beneficial.

I did realize I needed to work on other F2L fundamentals before attempting color neutrality though so I've abandoned this task in the meantime.
 

Cubertix

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It took me about 600 solves to return to my usual average when I decided to become color neutral. 100 for each side. My tips for making the switch:

1. Do it as soon as possible. I've been color neutral since I averaged 30s (now sub 17). The sooner the better, because you don't need to relearn things as much. That, and your skills will have more time to develop and lookahead will be much easier to build up.

2. Do an ao100 specifically on each cross color. I firmly believe that's all you need to have enough background practice on each side to be colour neutral. The fluidity will improve over time, but with this amount of practice you'll have enough to consistently be able to solve without any incorrect inserts. After these 600 solves, try doing completely colour neutral, color-specific averages.

3. Allow yourself infinite inspection until you feel comfortable. You have to choose from 6 crosses and then plan the cross you choose. It's a lot to do for 15 seconds from the get-go.

Good luck!
 

OreKehStrah

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Something else to note about color neutrality is that I think the standard color scheme is not color balanced well when solving on ROBG, or even on white/yellow. For white cross, red and orange don’t contrast very well. Lots of people are very particular about how their reds and oranges look, and I think that’s due to how poorly they contrast. Yellow and red contrast way better. Now, let’s say you’re doing Red Cross. Then you’re going to have white and yellow F2L, and those colors don’t contrast very well so it can be easy to mistake the two colors in bad lighting or turning fast. I’ve had a lot of solves DNF where I thought the cube was solved but actually had a U perm or something where white was on the yellow side or vice versa. Basically the cube has too many bright, non-contrasting colors. There is a lot of evidence to back this up too. Look at square-1 where people are swapping out yellow or white for black to increase the contrast. And megaminx where people tend to swap grey for black. I think it’s becoming pretty obvious that there is a lot of benefit to adding black to a puzzle to increase contrast, and takes minimal effort to readjust to. If you swap yellow for black on 3x3 you get a way more balanced cube, with way faster recognition. And it is impossible to mistake black for white.
 

Daikaigan

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Sep 27, 2020
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I'm not color neutral on all colors but I'm dual color neutral on yellow/white. I started with white and after I became sub-20, getting a bad cross gets quite annoying since it happens a lot so having two options to choose from makes it better. Doesn't necessarily mean I check both colors every time though. If the white cross is easy to do then I just don't bother checking the yellow cross.
 

RealNaoh

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Dec 10, 2020
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I’ve been dual-CN ever since I’ve been sub-30, and when I averaged high 8, I made the switch to CN. It was difficult and tiring, but it did make cubing more interesting. Approximately 10 months from that (now), I average low-mid 8, and I would still say I’m better for white and yellow a little bit. CN just gives me the edge in good scrambles. Do it if you want to do it. I personally did it because it would make cubing more interesting and motivating for me, and so that’s why I did it. I also admit that I partially did it because I believed it would make me faster, which it did, but only by a few tenths of a second (which is a lot at my skill level). So I would just say to do it if you want to, and if you aren’t motivated to do it and want to redirect your focus to something else, then do so.
 

Puzzlerr

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Dec 23, 2021
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I have always been color neutral. From the get go, I thought there was no reason to only use white. One of my best solves, a 12.89, was a one move red cross, which i would have not seen had I not been color neutral. I think it is the optimal way to solve.
i wish i had been told to do it from the beginning
 

tsmosher

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Aug 30, 2020
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I'm not color neutral, but I'm not a single cross solver either. I practiced solving on white only for several years, and then decided that using one color wasn't the move, so I practiced all the other colors as well to the point that I can find and use good crosses on any color. However, if you were to pick a random color on the cube and said do an average of 25 with just that color, it would be slightly worse than my white cross avg of 25, so I don't call myself color neutral. I prefer to say I'm an All-Colors solver
This coming from the guy who did 10 CN ZZ solves in a row on 10 cubes with 10 different color schemes!?

I have been color neutral since I started.

When i was trying to get faster with CFOP, I played around for a bit with white/yellow dual CN. Where you are constantly changing orientation in CFOP, I did not find that reverting to dual CN helped with my F2L pair pattern recognition much/at all.

So I went back to CN.

With the method(s) I use now, I'm honestly not skilled enough to start x2/y. I have a terrible time visualizing the block I need to build and can never find a good pair/block to start with (while staying x2/y).

I don't find that CN gives me much of a problem these days-- with pair recognition or anything else. Although once in a blue moon, I will join together a useless U layer pair.
 

OreKehStrah

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This coming from the guy who did 10 CN ZZ solves in a row on 10 cubes with 10 different color schemes!?

I have been color neutral since I started.

When i was trying to get faster with CFOP, I played around for a bit with white/yellow dual CN. Where you are constantly changing orientation in CFOP, I did not find that reverting to dual CN helped with my F2L pair pattern recognition much/at all.

So I went back to CN.

With the method(s) I use now, I'm honestly not skilled enough to start x2/y. I have a terrible time visualizing the block I need to build and can never find a good pair/block to start with (while staying x2/y).

I don't find that CN gives me much of a problem these days-- with pair recognition or anything else. Although once in a blue moon, I will join together a useless U layer pair.
Crazy what a pandemic does right?
After I joined the ZZ server and learned there was a guy doing CN ZZ I was like, “ I gotta try that” and now I can do it lol.
 
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I switched like 7 or 8 months into speedcubing. My average definitely improved because i was getting lucky crosses more often. Took me about a month to learn it and another half month maybe to be equal on all colours. I’m fully CN now
 

bulkocuber

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Oct 30, 2021
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I tried CN for a month when I began speedcubing, but I stopped practising it because it was so boring and there was no improvement. White is fine for me. A lot good speedcubers aren't CN, so yeah I don't regret it. The only thing that I like about CN is the fact that when you solve on a different colour, the cube has red/blue/green.... on top and it makes the cube cooler.
 

Flowkap

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Sep 29, 2021
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I tried and quit, except for 2x2. I have limited time to practise and am not even close to times where it's relevant. Most importantly: I'll probably never get even close to those times and it's more frustrating than fun to me.

I by now found that I enjoy varieties of puzzles more than just speed. So I like to improve times as well but more on variety of puzzles so I'm not aiming for color neutral anytime soon. And as it's harder later on probably never.

What shall I say: Older cubers brain 🧠
 

Sajwo

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It took me about 600 solves to return to my usual average when I decided to become color neutral. 100 for each side. My tips for making the switch:

1. Do it as soon as possible. I've been color neutral since I averaged 30s (now sub 17). The sooner the better, because you don't need to relearn things as much. That, and your skills will have more time to develop and lookahead will be much easier to build up.

2. Do an ao100 specifically on each cross color. I firmly believe that's all you need to have enough background practice on each side to be colour neutral. The fluidity will improve over time, but with this amount of practice you'll have enough to consistently be able to solve without any incorrect inserts. After these 600 solves, try doing completely colour neutral, color-specific averages.

3. Allow yourself infinite inspection until you feel comfortable. You have to choose from 6 crosses and then plan the cross you choose. It's a lot to do for 15 seconds from the get-go.

Good luck!

This is terrible advice. CN is all about chosing the optimal cross solution, not picking specific color before you even look at the scramble
 
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