color neutral cubers

[jazzthief81]

Finding a cross that looks nice to you and being able to solve it, whichever colour it happens to be, without that particular colour having a positive or negative effect in general on your solving times, is being colour neutral.

I totally agree. Color neutral is color neutral and the notion of having a preferred starting color becomes totally irrelevant.

What I said about the color neutral average is just an exercise or a goal I set myself. Of course, I'm limiting my freedom of choice by forcing myself to do 2 solves on each color, but to me that's missing the point of the exercise. If you're color neutral you should be able to start with any color, even if it doesn't have the best start.

Making the decision of what the best start is out of a number of possible starts, is one thing. Being able to start with any color and execute the solve quickly is another thing. I think both skills are necessary and to me, making the decision as to what the best start is, becomes trivial once you're able to execute solves on any color.

 

[jazzthief81]

Forcing yourself to use a particular colour on a particular solve is not being colour neutral.

Ultimately you do though, after you've made up your mind which color is the best to start on.

 

[Alifianto.Adi]

I was

 

[endless_akatsuki]

Dan Brown actually taught me to be color neutral

I average....about 14-16, depending on my mood.

I think both skills are necessary and to me, making the decision as to what the best start is, becomes trivial once you're able to execute solves on any color.

So you're saying that you'd just pick a random side to do your cross?

 

[jazzthief81]

I think both skills are necessary and to me, making the decision as to what the best start is, becomes trivial once you're able to execute solves on any color.

So you're saying that you'd just pick a random side to do your cross?

I could if I decided to and that strategy shouldn't average out slower than starting with a fixed color all the time.

 

[Yes We Can!]

I am completely colour neutral with every puzzle and I always have been. I've tried always starting with the same colours but it just feels odd. Also, using Petrus, it's far easier to make use of good cases if you are colour neutral. I average around 17-18 at home on an average day, but sometimes it's as high as 22 (usually on a competition day ) or as low as 15/16 (never on a competition day )

But you can get 10.xy-singles at competition days

 

[CharlieCooper]

I am completely colour neutral with every puzzle and I always have been. I've tried always starting with the same colours but it just feels odd. Also, using Petrus, it's far easier to make use of good cases if you are colour neutral. I average around 17-18 at home on an average day, but sometimes it's as high as 22 (usually on a competition day ) or as low as 15/16 (never on a competition day )

But you can get 10.xy-singles at competition days

Singles, no problem That's actually my only good single ever. I've never had a lucky pyraminx solve (my best event... or at least it used to be ) in a competition, which is so annoying, because it would almost certainly be sub 3.5 if not 3, as they frequently are at home

 

[Muesli]

*raises hand*

 

[Dene]

Forcing yourself to use a particular colour on a particular solve is not being colour neutral.

Ultimately you do though, after you've made up your mind which color is the best to start on.

Then why not just use the one that you decided is the best to start on?

I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are saying here:

Making the decision of what the best start is out of a number of possible starts, is one thing. Being able to start with any color and execute the solve quickly is another thing.

In the second point are you saying that you desire the ability to pick any colour before the solve, and for it to have no effect on solving time?
The problem I have with this is that the main idea of being CN is to avoid bad starts. So the first point you make is pertinent (being able to choose the best start), but the second is not (starting on a chosen colour).
Of course if you are looking for a different skill to being CN, for example a skill for no inspection solving in which you can solve the cube on whichever face is on F or U, then the second skill becomes relevant.

If the second point is instead trying to say that you desire the ability of a CN cuber, in which the colour cross that you choose as the best will then have no effect on solving time (positive or negative), this will not be fulfilled by your goal which as you said is to get an average of 12 with 2 solves on each colour cross.

 

[Feryll]

I used to be a green-crosser due to Dan, but I thought I was the only one who couldn't do it with other sides back then >.< So around 1:30 ish I forced myself to use others until I was CN at sub minute.

 

[Cyrus C.]

I started ~2 hours ago, I've done ~30 solves & it's pretty natural already.

 

[CubesOfTheWorld]

i am on the 2x2, of course. i am semi color neutral on the 3x3

 

[jazzthief81]

...

Dene, I think the way you and I see color neutral solving is not different in any way. I'm not going to argue about this.

What I said about the color neutral average was just a fun idea I had, a goal I could work to that in my eyes is already a big step ahead towards becoming color neutral. I don't see how you can feel so strongly against it. Don't you think that it would at least be a good indication that you're color neutral?

I was also trying to present a practical approach to learning color neutral solving to people who come from a fixed color mindset, just as I do. I think that goes way further than suggesting that being color neutral is something horribly complex that only a select number of people can understand.

I can assure you: it's not.

 

[MichaelP.]

[About] How long does it take you to identify which color you'll be solving the cross on during inspection, and do you still have time to plan your cross once you've decided?

 

[Stefan]

Lars vs Dene:

Dene is right about cross. Forcing yourself to use a certain cross color misses the point of CN.

Lars is right about the rest of the solve. Once you've chosen the best cross color, you're stuck with it for the rest of the solve. And for someone not yet CN, this is difficult with unfamiliar cross colors. Lars' experiment idea allows him to measure his progress towards CN, because an average containing six solves with his usual start color simply is incomparable to an average containing just one.

 

[Robert-Y]

Any CN Roux users out there? Whenever I use Roux for fun, I find it a bit hard to start on any colour. I wouldn't really say I'm CN with Roux.

 

[Stefan]

Lars is right about the rest of the solve. Once you've chosen the best cross color, you're stuck with it for the rest of the solve. And for someone not yet CN, this is difficult with unfamiliar cross colors. Lars' experiment idea allows him to measure his progress towards CN, because an average containing six solves with his usual start color simply is incomparable to an average containing just one.

Hmm, actually this also applies to the cross. But I think there it matters less. I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing that becoming neutral for cross is much easier than becoming neutral for the rest of the solve. Finding the best cross by checking six possibilities rather than one sounds like more work, but the easy ones probably stick out somehow and so are easier to see. Also, you get to do it all in inspection, unlike the rest of the solve.

Alternative experiment suggestion for Lars (or anyone else): Allow yourself to freely choose the cross color... except the cross color(s) you're familiar with already. Especially if you're just used to one cross color, you'll then train 5-color-neutrality. That's pretty close to full color neutrality and prevents results from being distorted by too many or too few solves with the color(s) you're used to.

 

[cincyaviation]

I am.

well of course it would be dene...

 

[MichaelP.]

[About] How long does it take you to identify which color you'll be solving the cross on during inspection, and do you still have time to plan your cross once you've decided?

 

[Stefan]

[About] How long does it take you to identify which color you'll be solving the cross on during inspection, and do you still have time to plan your cross once you've decided?

[About] How long does it take you to identify which color you'll be solving the cross on during inspection, and do you still have time to plan your cross once you've decided?

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