Big Cube BLD Discussion

[peedu]

How much more memorisation does 4x4 and 5x5 BLD require than 3x3 BLD

Is it twice,thrice or even more than that? both for 4x4 BLD and 5x5 BLD

Depends on how you memorize.

Just to give some idea...

If all pieces of 3x3 are out of the place and no new cycles are needed, then you memorize 11 letters for edges and 7 for corners, total 18.
Under the same assumption 4x4 would require 7 for corners, 23 for edges and 23 for centers.
total 53.
5x5 - 7 for corners, 23 for +edges, 23 for xedges, 23 for winglets, 11 for central edges.
total 87.

Of course this is not always the case, you can reduce the centers of 4x4 by selecting the orientation.

Take 3x3 - 20, 4x4 - 50, 5x5 - 85 and I hope it is accurate enough for an answer to your question.


Peedu

 

[MrMoney]

Hi guys,

I am thinking about attempting a 5´bld. I am wondering how to solve it. I am thinking:

Solve:
x-centres -commutators
+-centres -commutators
midges - m2
dedges - r2
corners - BH corners / OLD PC if parity

So I am wondering, what type of paritys can you have at 5BLD? And what "extra" is there to know then the 444?

 

[Yes We Can!]

For r2 dedges it's just the same as at 4x4.

Corners and midges depend of each other. If you have no corner parity, you have no midge parity either. If you do have corner parity, you also have midge parity.
For that I do: Corners + Y-Perm (make sure that the centers don't get affected if you do corners first). Then I do my solve with midges last. After that: U' F2 U m2 U' F2 U, that fixes the m-slice and the UL and UB midge. Then I do y2 R U R' U' (Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2) U R U' R' y2. And after that a Y-Perm is left.

I hope it helps. Concerning the centres I don't really know, because I don't use comms.

 

[TMOY]

More precisely, the dependencies between parities are:
- corners + midges + x-centers + +-centers;
- wings + +-centers.
If you do centers before the parity fixes, you won't have to worry about center parities, as long as you make sure that your parity algs permute only centers of the same color.

 

[kinch2002]

(Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2). These moves that Corny wrote are good ones. They switch the UB wings with the UF wings. So use a PLL to solve the corners and whole edges (midges and wings). That should leave you with 2 sets of wings to switch using the above alg.

 

[cmhardw]

Ugh... Why is 3x3x3BLD so awkward and weird? I figured this thread was as good a place as any to post this sentiment. I like 4x4x4 BLD, and even doing the 3x3x3 part of 5x5x5BLD is kinda fun. But 3x3x3BLD by itself is just hard to wrap my brain around. Stupid permuted but disoriented pieces lol.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Agreed. But it's even worse when you try to do multi. So you don't know the half of it.

 

[cmhardw]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has these thoughts sometimes, thanks Mike! By the way, we should ban permuted but disoriented pieces. They're totally not cool enough to play... seriously

 

[aronpm]

Pretend your 3x3 is a 5x5 and you skipped centers and wings

 

[LarsN]

Yeah, I like bigbld better than 3x3x3bld too. I do more 5x5x5bld solves than 3x3x3bld. I even feel that I memo the 3x3x3 part faster on the 5x5x5, like I'm on a roll or something. My memo gets warmed up by the other memo stages. Maybe I should consider warming up for 3x3x3bld with some 5x5x5 memoing

 

[kinch2002]

Finished writing r2 and corner tutorials for 4bld. I'll record them in the next few days, and then put them all up together with the centre comms video and maybe one on memo too.

I wrote it during a particularly boring 2 hour lecture on Elasticity and Plasticity

 

[JonnyWhoopes]

Finished writing r2 and corner tutorials for 4bld. I'll record them in the next few days, and then put them all up together with the centre comms video and maybe one on memo too.

I wrote it during a particularly boring 2 hour lecture on Elasticity and Plasticity

Oh yes yes please. It'll be nice to have a full video tutorials for 4BLD.

 

[amostay2004]

It'll be even nicer to have full video tutorials with (Daniel's) English accent

 

[RyanReese09]

Finished writing r2 and corner tutorials for 4bld. I'll record them in the next few days, and then put them all up together with the centre comms video and maybe one on memo too.

I wrote it during a particularly boring 2 hour lecture on Elasticity and Plasticity

WEEEEEEEEEEE .

Feels like Christmas.
I need to start learning 4x4x4 BLD..supposed to know how to do it by Nationals

 

[cmhardw]

I have a quick question for all you multi- and BIG cube BLD people, and this seemed the most appropriate place to ask. How comparable is a single 7x7x7BLD solve to a 10 cube 3x3x3 multi? They're almost the exact same number of journey locations for me (maybe 11 cube 3x3x3 multi would be a closer fit). I'm curious about the memo + execution time. If I can get my 7x7x7 BLD down to sub-hour, would that mean that I would have a decent shot at getting a 10-11 cube 3x3x3 multi also in sub-hour?

Thanks in advance for those who can help provide some insight here.

 

[aronpm]

My latest 7bld attempt: 56:35 (28:31 memo) (DNF obviously)
I haven't done 10 cubes in a while but scaling down my 13/13 I'd guess around 11:20 memo, 10 exec (=21 minutes)

I think 7bld can't be compared to multi because there are different kinds of pieces. Centers are really hard to memo, compared to wings/edges or corners.

I think you could definitely do sup10 sub60 though.

 

[Mike Hughey]

It takes me somewhat less time to memorize a 7x7x7 than it takes me to memorize 10 3x3x3s. The reason isn't locations - they're about the same number of pieces/locations. The reason is that there are too many disjointed things to memorize for individual cubes for me. For each 3x3x3, I have to memorize edges, corners, flipped edges, and twisted corners. That makes 40 discrete sets of information for ten cubes. For a 7x7x7, I just need to memorize 2 sets of obliques, 2 sets of wings, 2 sets of X centers, 2 sets of + centers, a set of central edges, perhaps flipped central edges, a set of corners, and perhaps twisted corners. A total of 12 sets of information. It's larger amounts of information for each set, but the fact that there are fewer sets seems to help me. Somehow, reviewing that information is easier for me on a 7x7x7 than it is reviewing for 3x3x3s.

Lately, I've been doing lots of 3x3x3 multis with 9 cubes. I'm averaging around 25 minutes memorizing 9 cubes. On a good 7x7x7, I should be closer to 20 minutes memorizing. I'd say I get through the task of memorizing them in about the same time as a 7x7x7, but I take longer going over the memorization on the 3x3x3s than I do for the 7x7x7. So I actually get going on the 7x7x7 quicker.

For execution, the 7x7x7 is definitely slower than the 3x3x3s, for me. You can go through the 3x3x3s really fast; the 7x7x7 takes longer. Switching to BH wings has helped a lot on execution for 7x7x7, though - it's really helpful to minimize the move count on 7x7x7, where that's not quite as important on 3x3x3.

 

[DennisStrehlau]

I have a quick question for all you multi- and BIG cube BLD people, and this seemed the most appropriate place to ask. How comparable is a single 7x7x7BLD solve to a 10 cube 3x3x3 multi? They're almost the exact same number of journey locations for me (maybe 11 cube 3x3x3 multi would be a closer fit). I'm curious about the memo + execution time. If I can get my 7x7x7 BLD down to sub-hour, would that mean that I would have a decent shot at getting a 10-11 cube 3x3x3 multi also in sub-hour?

Thanks in advance for those who can help provide some insight here.

Hey Chris.
Yes, if you do a 7x7x7 BLD, its about the same like 10 cubes blindfolded.
But if you do a 7x7x7 BLD in sub-1 hour, you can do more 3x3x3s in sub-1 hour. Just the execution part of the 3x3x3 is soooo much easier and faster. Also finding the correct pieces is easier on a 3x3x3. Its even "harder" on a 5x5x5 (compared to a 3x3x3). But if you just talk about the information part, so all the information you have to memorize and compare a 7x7x7 to 10 3x3x3s, you are right.

Dennis

 

[LarsN]

I've been doing a little experiment lately. People always say that you should memo piece cycles and not piece position. I decided to test if this was true and found that bigcube centers would be an area which might have some potentiel, because they are not as restricted as other piece types.

Then I developed a memo method (I did not want to do this visually!) and I found that memo was not a problem at all. I didn't suspect it to be, but it seems that memo will be at least as fast or maybe even faster than cycle memo. Here is my memo from my last test solve on 4x4 centers:

"Han Solo attacks Kristoffer (my cousin)"
"Cinderella falls dead on the body of an alien"
"Belle (beauty and the beast) lies dead at the foot af a pilot"

Each person and the persons action defines the colors of the four positions on a face of the cube. Not doing an action is also an action. I place the three images in the same room (in this case my living room) because I need to be able to random access the faces.
Very little information is needed to remember the colors of all 24 pieces. This is why I believe that memo could be faster then cycle memo with practice.

The hard part is of course execution. I've only had two attempts so far, but they where not as slow as I feared. The problems I encountered so far:

- It takes some time to find the cycles to solve. I believe that this time will reduce with practise but not likely to be as fast as prepared cycle memo.
- Remembering which pieces you have already finished. This is a big hurdle for me, but of course I need more practice.

Both my first attempts were successful and I feel very comfortable about the memo part. But I was wondering if anybody had ideas on how to approach execution in a better way. I doubt that this will become my main method, but I would like to test it some more. Maybe it will be useful for a 7x7x7bld because of all the centers.

 

[TMOY]

I always memo centers by position, precisely because it makes memo significantly faster.
For execution, I don't do cycles. I just solve a whole center, then another one, and so on.