Big Cube BLD Discussion

[josh42732]

P.S. Also on another topic that caught my eye in your post: Why should slow people even get their name in the record books? IMO only the fastest ones should get that honor. And there is always hope for the slow ones also since everyone who is fast now was once slow Just keep practising and good luck with 7BLD, I'm starting to practise it next week also

Well, IF they added 7BLD into competitions, maybe they would put your name in the books just if you got a success. Time doesn't matter and it is jsut a matter of if you DNF or not. Whoever DNF's the least wins the comp. They have a recorder in a quiet room to film to make sure they don't cheat so a conjugate is not sitting there for so long. That way, the only thing keeping you back isn't time. (well maybe they would put like a 10 hour time limit on it or something like that lol)

 

[cmhardw]

cmhardw, I know you can just swap centers at the end, but I'm curious to know if anybody does solve 5BLD that way (orienting the cube to get easier centers, solving it, and swapping the centers). Do you do it or know anybody who does it?

Yes, orienting a 5x5 to a good starting state is something I do regularly and have been doing since around 2011. I don't remember the exact date, but I posted it on the forum when I made the decision to switch, so there is a public record of it here somewhere.

I got the idea from Mike Hughey, who used to do this regularly. I don't know if he still does.

I think Chester Lian did it. It's not a terrible idea, as long as you don't orient into one of the bad orientations (where you can't fix your centers without doing some void parity nonsense).

I only pick from the 12 orientations where the corner and edge permutation parities match (centers have even permutation parity). There was some talk a few years ago where people were searching for a good void parity style alg that put the centers into an even parity state solvable with a 4 move commutator and also swapped two edges. I don't remember anyone finding a particularly fast alg, but I could be mistaken on that point.

Also, if I remember correctly, Mike Hughey eventually advocated against using this regularly on 5x5, but he definitely uses it in 7x7 BLD. I don't do 7BLD often, but I do rotate for the best starting position when I do. It saves a lot of memorization effort throughout the solve.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I wasn't sure about using it regularly on the 5x5x5, but eventually I wound up sticking with it. I still reorient regularly for 5BLD. And 7BLD. (Only using the 12 "easy" orientations, like Chris.)

I'm pretty sure Mats Bergsten still does too. Much to gain, pretty much nothing to lose. The only reason not to reorient is because you're potentially slightly more likely to make a mistake memorizing because you might notice the center piece and as a result assign the wrong letter to a piece. But my ingrained habit is strong enough that that practically never happens.

I'm pretty sure there are some people who reorient 5x5x5 BLD using all 24 possible orientations. It's a little harder, but there are people who got comfortable with it, and once you're comfortable with it, odds are it's useful too.

So anyway, yes, reorienting for 5BLD is a very reasonable thing to do.

 

[tseitsei]

Well, IF they added 7BLD into competitions, maybe they would put your name in the books just if you got a success. Time doesn't matter and it is jsut a matter of if you DNF or not. Whoever DNF's the least wins the comp.

Yeah maybe wins the competition but after a while fast people will inevitably get successes and dominate WRs (and CRs) as it should be So you wouldn't get a WR (well you might for a while if you happened to be the first one to succeed at official comp, but you would soon lose it to someone faster who actually deserves it)... Records belong only to the best of the best and fastest of the fast. That's just how it goes and should go.

They have a recorder in a quiet room to film to make sure they don't cheat so a conjugate is not sitting there for so long. That way, the only thing keeping you back isn't time. (well maybe they would put like a 10 hour time limit on it or something like that lol)

No. Just no. You need a referee for BLD solve to hold the paper in front of you otherwise you can easily peek under the blindfold (Matyas Kuti!) without anyone being able to notice that. Also demanding organizers to have video cameras availible is bad idea. As is demanding competitors to provide their own cameras in order to be allowed to compete... And even so the only thing keeping you back is still time. You won't get WR (except for the first success for a short while and that's same with all the new events added) if you just go very very slowly to get a success. Someone fast BLDer (Ollie or Roman if he goes to comp or many others) will definitely do it faster.

 

[Goosly]

No. Just no. You need a referee for BLD solve to hold the paper in front of you otherwise you can easily peek under the blindfold (Matyas Kuti!) without anyone being able to notice that.

B4c3) If the judge and competitor agree beforehand, the competitor may choose to place the puzzle behind a suitable object (e.g. a music stand, the surface of the table) by himself during the blindfolded phase.

 

[tseitsei]

B4c3) If the judge and competitor agree beforehand, the competitor may choose to place the puzzle behind a suitable object (e.g. a music stand, the surface of the table) by himself during the blindfolded phase.

You still need a personal judge for all your official attempts. That's also in the regulations somewhere but I'm too lazy to find the exact quote right now... Besides my other points towards that video camera idea still stand.

 

[TheCoolMinxer]

I have a question for 4bld/5bld wings and centers: I have a hard time telling which wings/centers are unsolved after a cycle break. Is there an easy system or is it just instinct or do I have to count which wings/centers are solved and then this "24 wings-solved pieces+cycle breaks" to see if I missed wings/centers .And then, after I found out that there are still some pieces missing, how can I know which exactly aren't solved? For 3bld edges I also had a hard time telling which are missing but after some practising I just knew, which were missing. Is it the same for big bld?

 

[tseitsei]

I have a question for 4bld/5bld wings and centers: I have a hard time telling which wings/centers are unsolved after a cycle break. Is there an easy system or is it just instinct or do I have to count which wings/centers are solved and then this "24 wings-solved pieces+cycle breaks" to see if I missed wings/centers .And then, after I found out that there are still some pieces missing, how can I know which exactly aren't solved? For 3bld edges I also had a hard time telling which are missing but after some practising I just knew, which were missing. Is it the same for big bld?

Yeah. It's mostly instinctive.

You can count the targets you need but it's very slow. Just do a lot of solves and it will become automatic like in 3BLD

 

[JemFish]

I have a question for 4bld/5bld wings and centers: I have a hard time telling which wings/centers are unsolved after a cycle break. Is there an easy system or is it just instinct or do I have to count which wings/centers are solved and then this "24 wings-solved pieces+cycle breaks" to see if I missed wings/centers .And then, after I found out that there are still some pieces missing, how can I know which exactly aren't solved? For 3bld edges I also had a hard time telling which are missing but after some practising I just knew, which were missing. Is it the same for big bld?

Yeah. It's mostly instinctive.

You can count the targets you need but it's very slow. Just do a lot of solves and it will become automatic like in 3BLD

I was just going to ask about this. There are just so many wings on the 4x4, it's so difficult to know you've covered them all. I usually run through them making sure I haven't missed anything. (Well not usually - I've only attempted the wings 4 or 5 times.)

 

[cmhardw]

if (#wings memorized) - (# cycle breaks) + (# solved pieces) = 24 then you're done memorizing.

Know where 24 wings memorized would end up in your (roman room/journey method) and see if it falls short of or goes beyond this point, and by how much. If you use sentences then get a feel for an "average length" sentence and see how your current memo compares to the average.

 

[Cale S]

if (#wings memorized) - (# cycle breaks) + (# solved pieces) = 24 then you're done memorizing.

Actually it should equal 23
Without any cycle breaks or solved pieces, doing 23 targets automatically solves the buffer.

Know where 24 wings memorized would end up in your (roman room/journey method) and see if it falls short of or goes beyond this point, and by how much. If you use sentences then get a feel for an "average length" sentence and see how your current memo compares to the average.

I agree with this and find it very helpful for my memo. For me I use 3 adjacent rooms in my house for wings, and my rooms have 8 letters each. I just take note of solved pieces I see and cycle breaks I run into to adjust for any changes in the number of targets I need.

 

[moralsh]

Same here, I do groups of 8 targets so the 3rd usually finish the wings memo.

When I have a cycle break, I continue on the first unsolved letter, and I usually search top down.

 

[cmhardw]

Actually it should equal 23
Without any cycle breaks or solved pieces, doing 23 targets automatically solves the buffer.

23 targets does solve the buffer, but you've implicitly memorized 24 pieces

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

It's entirely possible to physically keep track of which wings you have solved already. I've got a system to make it easier, it mostly uses my hands but I also use my feet. I use DFr buffer.

Right hand:
Index - URf
Middle - UBr, Rub, BRu
Ring - RBd
Pinky - RDf, DRb (neither/DRf/DRb/DRB=both)
Thumb - FUr, RFu

Right foot (move part/all of foot to the side):
Heel - FRd
Toes - BDr

Left hand/foot mirror this, and I don't track FDl since that isn't necessary. I'll make a video if this isn't clear. It took me a little while to be able to do this automatically, but I think it was worth the effort.

 

[tseitsei]

It's entirely possible to physically keep track of which wings you have solved already. I've got a system to make it easier, it mostly uses my hands but I also use my feet. I use DFr buffer.

Right hand:
Index - URf
Middle - UBr, Rub, BRu
Ring - RBd
Pinky - RDf, DRb (neither/DRf/DRb/DRB=both)
Thumb - FUr, RFu

Right foot (move part/all of foot to the side):
Heel - FRd
Toes - BDr

Left hand/foot mirror this, and I don't track FDl since that isn't necessary. I'll make a video if this isn't clear. It took me a little while to be able to do this automatically, but I think it was worth the effort.

Sounds quite slow. But yes it might work for beginners

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

Sounds quite slow. But yes it might work for beginners

At first, it's slow, but after I used it for a while I didn't have to think about it any more so it didn't slow me down at all. I'm not a beginner (but I'm not world class either ... yet).

 

[JemFish]

I have some questions and requests regarding 5BLD:

Can I have the parity fixes for "centre wings" and "side wings?" Or is it the same as 3BLD (centre wings) and 4BLD (side wings)?

I assume that the evenness/oddness of the "centre wings" are the same as the corners. Am I correct?

Thanks

 

[tseitsei]

I have some questions and requests regarding 5BLD:

Can I have the parity fixes for "centre wings" and "side wings?" Or is it the same as 3BLD (centre wings) and 4BLD (side wings)?

I assume that the evenness/oddness of the "centre wings" are the same as the corners. Am I correct?

Thanks

For outer edges(wings) it's the same as in 4bld.

For center edges (midges) parity is same as gor corners yes. You can fix it by putting unsolved midges to UF and UB and doing Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2. Now you can solve the rest just like in 3bld

 

[JemFish]

For outer edges(wings) it's the same as in 4bld.

For center edges (midges) parity is same as gor corners yes. You can fix it by putting unsolved midges to UF and UB and doing Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2. Now you can solve the rest just like in 3bld

Thanks! And now I know the difference between midges and wings.

Also, assuming I store 3 letter pairs in a location, how many locations would I usually need to store all my memo for 5BLD (excluding midges)? I'm too lazy to work it out, but if I did I might have missed something. Can you please break down the number of locations into separate corner centres/cross centres/wings/corners please? Thanks and sorry for the trouble; I haven't really used loci much except for speed cards, and even then it's not very efficient, and now I'm trying big BLD.

(I hope to get a 5BLD success before a 4BLD success, just for fun; I've found that I have more of an interest in 5BLD than 4BLD.)

 

[Goosly]

Also, assuming I store 3 letter pairs in a location, how many locations would I usually need to store all my memo for 5BLD (excluding midges)? I'm too lazy to work it out, but if I did I might have missed something. Can you please break down the number of locations into separate corner centres/cross centres/wings/corners please?

corners: ~8 targets, 1 location
midges: ~12 targets, 2 locations
wings: ~24 targets, 4 locations
for centers it depends on the scramble, usually you have like 4-6 solved center pieces, so you'll need 3 or 4 locations for + centers and 3 or 4 for x centers