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Big Cube BLD Discussion

etshy

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Update: as with most thing cubing, practice did the job.
I can now say that I 'see' the obliques :)

I will stick to solving obliques (and some center-centers) from written memo for while to improve accurace. Only then I will invest the time in memoing for full solves.
With my 5BLD times in the 35 min range and the extra care needed for taking the correct slices in 6BLD I expect going over the hour...
I tried obliques only ( Memo + solve ) it took around 25 mins , so obviously 6BLD will go over an hour , at first I tried U2 , but it was hard to turn the right layer , so I switched to r2 and it worked fine with me :)
 

Cubenovice

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I tried obliques only ( Memo + solve ) it took around 25 mins , so obviously 6BLD will go over an hour , at first I tried U2 , but it was hard to turn the right layer , so I switched to r2 and it worked fine with me :)
As you can read a few posts up I considered switching to r2 but I stuck to commutators.

I find that using written memo (just jotting down the letterpairs) is good practice on a new size of big BLD; it allows you to concentrate on the solving part and you can get more practice in less time.

Good luck with your quest for 6BLD and mminxBLD!
 

etshy

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As you can read a few posts up I considered switching to r2 but I stuck to commutators.

I find that using written memo (just jotting down the letterpairs) is good practice on a new size of big BLD; it allows you to concentrate on the solving part and you can get more practice in less time.

Good luck with your quest for 6BLD and mminxBLD!
I will consider switching to commutators after I get a success :)
thanks :) Good luck to you 2 :)
 

cmhardw

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do i have to learn 4bld before learning 5bld or not, if it's the latter, is there any guide on how to solve the 5x5 cube bld?
I would recommend to learn 4x4 BLD first since it's a smaller amount of information to memorize. If you're feeling ambitious, then learn 5x5x5 BLD first in which case you will effectively be learning 4x4BLD at the same time.

There are threads on the forum about how to handle wing edges and centers. U2 is a good centers method, and r2 is a good wing edges method. You can also use commutators for either piece type (or both).

There are algs on Stefan Pochmann's website to handle parities.

Hope this helps.
 

tseitsei

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what is the average limit for 4bld using u2/r2/op before i have to use comms for centers and wings? my average is about 7 min and my pb is 4 min 54 sec
thanks!
Well ollicubes has at least low 4 success (and maybe even sub-4 not sure about that tough) with u2/r2/op... And with faster memo I would say 3:30 is possible at least but my advice would be to change as soon as possible.
 

ollicubes

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what is the average limit for 4bld using u2/r2/op before i have to use comms for centers and wings? my average is about 7 min and my pb is 4 min 54 sec
thanks!

Well, I did one sub-4 with u2/r2/op.
At your situation you can easily get down to 4-5 minutes if u can memo in ~2, 5 minutes and execute with no pauses. Of course if u learn comms you get faster in that way.
 

rybaby

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What are the techniques most people use here for memorization? I haven't gotten a success yet, but I've been using the Link method of memory (2 at a time linking of objects). Does anyone else use Linking? What other systems are in use (perhaps sentences, audio, journey/loci, visual)?
 

cmhardw

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What are the techniques most people use here for memorization? I haven't gotten a success yet, but I've been using the Link method of memory (2 at a time linking of objects). Does anyone else use Linking? What other systems are in use (perhaps sentences, audio, journey/loci, visual)?
I used to use a linking method. It's pros are that you can memorize quite quickly with practice. The downsides, for me, were that I had a difficult time doing multiple solves in a row with it, especially in competition. Linking methods suffer from memorization interference where you have a hard time forgetting the stuff from your previous solve while memorizing a new solve.

Sentences are popular, and may feel roughly similar to linking. Letter pair images are useful as well, using roman rooms or journeys to place images.

Look into sentences first. It has great potential and may feel similar to your current linking method.
 

rybaby

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I used to use a linking method. It's pros are that you can memorize quite quickly with practice. The downsides, for me, were that I had a difficult time doing multiple solves in a row with it, especially in competition. Linking methods suffer from memorization interference where you have a hard time forgetting the stuff from your previous solve while memorizing a new solve.

Sentences are popular, and may feel roughly similar to linking. Letter pair images are useful as well, using roman rooms or journeys to place images.

Look into sentences first. It has great potential and may feel similar to your current linking method.
Ok, thanks for the tips. Do you recommend mixing memo methods among pieces (e.g. maybe loci/linking for wings, and sentences for centers and corners), or just using sentences for everything?
 

cmhardw

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Ok, thanks for the tips. Do you recommend mixing memo methods among pieces (e.g. maybe loci/linking for wings, and sentences for centers and corners), or just using sentences for everything?
I personally recommend using different memo for different pieces when possible. Perhaps use sentences for wings and centers, then use images for 3x3? I have no idea what the pros these days use. I use letter pair images for wings, centers and corners, audio for edges, and visual for centralmost centers (5x5).
 

tseitsei

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What are the techniques most people use here for memorization? I haven't gotten a success yet, but I've been using the Link method of memory (2 at a time linking of objects). Does anyone else use Linking? What other systems are in use (perhaps sentences, audio, journey/loci, visual)?
I use journey/loci for longer time memory (mbld and parts of 5bld), Sentences for little shorter time memory (4bld and parts of 5bld) and audio for short time memory (Something I memo last and execute first ex. 3&4&5 bld corners)
 

rybaby

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I personally recommend using different memo for different pieces when possible. Perhaps use sentences for wings and centers, then use images for 3x3? I have no idea what the pros these days use. I use letter pair images for wings, centers and corners, audio for edges, and visual for centralmost centers (5x5).
I got my first 4bld success today :D
Memorization was slow (19:30) but of course I'm not yet going for speed.
I used roman rooms for centers, linking for wings, and a sentence for corners. All these memos stuck well; next time I might experiment with sentences for wings or centers.

Everyone disregard this if you happen to see it: bojangles (silly word game I'm in)
 

cmhardw

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I got my first 4bld success today :D
Memorization was slow (19:30) but of course I'm not yet going for speed.
I used roman rooms for centers, linking for wings, and a sentence for corners. All these memos stuck well; next time I might experiment with sentences for wings or centers.

Everyone disregard this if you happen to see it: bojangles (silly word game I'm in)
Yay! Congrats on your successful solve! How did you like diversifying your memorization methods? It seems like it worked well for you, based on you saying the memos stuck well. I'm glad it worked out, and congratulations again!
 

rybaby

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Yay! Congrats on your successful solve! How did you like diversifying your memorization methods? It seems like it worked well for you, based on you saying the memos stuck well. I'm glad it worked out, and congratulations again!
Thanks :)
Having different memo systems was good, and recall was made easy since I just thought, "wings, ok those pairs are in my room or "corners, that's my sentence." And they were all reasonably quick, it was mostly my own inexperience that kept the memo slow. I think I'll try again tonight with more sentences to see how that works.
 

cmhardw

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Thanks :)
Having different memo systems was good, and recall was made easy since I just thought, "wings, ok those pairs are in my room or "corners, that's my sentence." And they were all reasonably quick, it was mostly my own inexperience that kept the memo slow. I think I'll try again tonight with more sentences to see how that works.
Very cool! Good luck with your next solve! If you like the sentences memo, I'd be curious how you use it exactly. I've never tried sentence memo. I gather it's a very free form adaptation to letter pair memo? Just group together letters that make a word organically and see what words are formed? Is there any prep work done on possible letter combinations before hand or no?
 

rybaby

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Very cool! Good luck with your next solve! If you like the sentences memo, I'd be curious how you use it exactly. I've never tried sentence memo. I gather it's a very free form adaptation to letter pair memo? Just group together letters that make a word organically and see what words are formed? Is there any prep work done on possible letter combinations before hand or no?
I think some people have had prepared lists of words, but from Ollie's thread it looks like he is very free form about it -- he can make pairs into nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. depending on the context. It seems to me like a prepared set of letter pair images would be most useful for a journey/loci or a linking method, where you can just go from word to word through a journey or link. If you just "wing it" (no pun intended) then it must take some good thinking on your feet to memo fast. Another aspect is it seems like he can vary the sentences quite a bit (not like a strict PAO or anything), and sometimes he makes pretty detailed, long sentences.
 

cmhardw

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I think some people have had prepared lists of words, but from Ollie's thread it looks like he is very free form about it -- he can make pairs into nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. depending on the context. It seems to me like a prepared set of letter pair images would be most useful for a journey/loci or a linking method, where you can just go from word to word through a journey or link. If you just "wing it" (no pun intended) then it must take some good thinking on your feet to memo fast. Another aspect is it seems like he can vary the sentences quite a bit (not like a strict PAO or anything), and sometimes he makes pretty detailed, long sentences.
Wow, that is much more free form than I expected. It seems the idea evolves eventually into having each letter pair have multiple choices, each of a different part of speech.

I think empirically that the sentences method is much faster than letter pair images or PAO, but I am baffled as to how sentences is faster than a letter pair PAO. To be clear, I am not questioning whether sentences is faster, I am questioning how is it faster? Do other memory experts use free form methods like this? I was under the impression that the memory sports people all use very rigid and structured systems by comparison.

I'm just curious. I am very motivated to learn a letter pair PAO system because of Ian Winokur, but I am trying to entertain the idea of sentences before I do so.
 

rybaby

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Wow, that is much more free form than I expected. It seems the idea evolves eventually into having each letter pair have multiple choices, each of a different part of speech.

I think empirically that the sentences method is much faster than letter pair images or PAO, but I am baffled as to how sentences is faster than a letter pair PAO. To be clear, I am not questioning whether sentences is faster, I am questioning how is it faster? Do other memory experts use free form methods like this? I was under the impression that the memory sports people all use very rigid and structured systems by comparison.

I'm just curious. I am very motivated to learn a letter pair PAO system because of Ian Winokur, but I am trying to entertain the idea of sentences before I do so.
I have done a lot of reading on memory sports recently, and it seems most people don't have anything near as free form as sentence memo. For example, when memorizing numbers, most people have a two digit (occasionally 3, rarely 4) system where each set of two digits is a word. They then put these in set points along a journey (typically). And based on what I've read, most people use the same words every time. Others use PAO where each two digit combo has a person, an action, and an object associated with it (e.g. if 36 is MJ, 36 could have Michael Jordan [person] dunks [action] a basketball [object]). Then depending on when a two digit number appears in a sequence, it will be either a person, action or object. So it's like 1 image for every 6 numbers. But as for how sentences are faster, I really don't know enough. Perhaps they are popular because most people use sentences for at least one component of 3BLD, and when they learn bigBLD they are already comfortable with making sentences. So it could just be a users thing; I'm not educated enough in memory to make a clear determination of what is better.

And btw, I tried a 4BLD with sentences for Centers and Corners, Linking for wings. It was a DNF (by a lot) -- most likely an error in execution early on that threw lots of stuff off. But the sentences stuck well.
 
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