Andrea Santambrogio Square-1 single WR 7.41

Everyone, please refrain from making unfounded statements or propositions like these, it is not fair to the competitor or how the WCA operates in general. Give Andrea a chance to reconstruct the solve, and even if this doesn't occur, trust the delegate's final decision.

Ok, Kit.
 
1. How do you know this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm just interested in how you know who the scrambler was. Your name isn't on the competitor's list so you must have got your information from somewhere else.

From the delegates and results team mailing lists.

2. Can you tell me how you can run a round of Square-1 with a single group, without having to rely on competitors who are not competing for scrambling? I mean, in this case there was a scrambler available who wasn't competing, but that will not always be the case.

I didn't say it can always be done, but you said it can never be done. And that's wrong.

trust the delegate's final decision

Never!

Mostly kidding. Though really, "just trust the delegate" is unsatisfactory. Which is why the delegate is going to tell the story.
 
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Hello everyone. I'm one of the two delegates who attended the Legnano Open yesterday. I'll try to clarify all the doubts that emerged in the last day.


1. How do you know this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm just interested in how you know who the scrambler was. Your name isn't on the competitor's list so you must have got your information from somewhere else.
2. Can you tell me how you can run a round of Square-1 with a single group, without having to rely on competitors who are not competing for scrambling? I mean, in this case there was a scrambler available who wasn't competing, but that will not always be the case.

Stefan got this informations from me. I was the scrambler in the square-1 final. As you can see from my official profile, I have some experience with the square-1. I decided not to compete yesterday for mainly two reasons:
1) I was the only one able to scramble this puzzle fast except for the other competitors and it was just a single round, so I thought the best thing was not to divide the competitors in two groups;
2) I haven't been practicing this puzzle for months, so my solves would have been a waste of time from the organizing point of view.

I'm not a newbie when it's about square-1. I know a bit about it, as you can see from my profile on the WCA database. I don't find this result so strange because I have a personal best at home of 8.xx seconds, made when my average was about 28-30 seconds. Sometimes scrambles are very lucky and you can skip almost everything after getting back to the cube shape, as mostly of you surely well know.

I can assure everybody that the scramble was correct. I checked it, of course, before letting the judge taking the puzzle. It matched with the scrambling sheet. At that point of the competition, just three competitors were still solving, and Andrea was also the first one getting the puzzle for the 5th attempt. All happened very quickly, I gave the puzzle to the judge, who brought it immediately to Andrea. He was still the fastest solver in the event, so there were a lot of witnesses to the solve.

After the solve, me and the other delegate (Matteo Colombo) checked again the scramble. I remembered it and it also matched with the sheet and with the other two square-1 that were waiting for a judge at the scrambling table. We also asked the judge of the WR solve if he remembered the scramble and it was it.

Unfortunately, there's no video of the solve. That happened because Andrea started his average badly and decided not to film himself after the second attempt. Still, he has an official average of 23.20 seconds and his previous best single in competition was 15.91. This was a NR at the time (2011), and he averaged 37 seconds in that round. I think that yesterday he was a bit rusty at the beginning of the event, but I know that he has a lot of sub20 averages at home. So, I think that his abilities with this puzzle are doubt-proof.

After the solve, I obviously talked to the competitor. He just told me he got really lucky, that he placed the cube in a wrong orientation on the table (confirmed by the judge), he skipped a whole layer after reducing the square-1 to the cube shape and that he then had just one single algo left to complete the puzzle.
Then I asked him for a reconstruction (Matteo was there too), but Andrea was really upset and couldn't find it again. So we thought that he could've got lucky because of the initial mistake he made (placing the puzzle in the wrong orientation after the inspection). We valuated his behaviour as genuine, he was sincerely shocked about what he just did.

I have no doubt that everything was done following the rules.

Cheers,

Lorenzo
 
Even with random-state scrambles? Surely with a better scrambling method each step should be about as likely to be skipped as each other step. Common "super-scramble"s where many steps get skipped all at once should really only occur with the old scrambler.

I agree, with random twists I have many sub 7s, but with random state I have only had a few sub 9s
 
Assuming this is legit;

Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later.

The same thing happens with 2x2x2 single but is so frequent that it kind of normalises the single. This is the same thing but sq1's super easy scramble distribution makes this freak occurace much more anomalous.

I guess that if you're annoyed about this for whatever reason you can take solice in the fact that the time isn't so crazy that it cannot be beaten with more regular scrambles. WR times are getting to the point for many puzzles where it requires a combination of luck and skill. Besides, it's not like any event has been absolutely broken yet.

Cool stuff, congratulations. Looking forward to seeing how mad square 1 single can get in the future due to this special variance in scramble distribution.
 
I'm still not convinced for probability reasons (basically, much more likely there was some kind of cheating/scrambling mistake/other shenanigans than that there was actually a ridiculously lucky scramble, given the random scramble style we use).

Honestly, because Square-1 is a much longer event than 2x2x2 with a lot of difference between people's times, it would be really nice if we could prevent this kind of thing from happening, and having very fast people have to compete with a crazy single achieved primarily by luck. I'd like something to not allow any singles less than, say, 0.5 of someone's best average. I'm sure a couple people would be unhappy with this, and I agree it's pretty arbitrary, and the edge cases would be problematic, but I think it would help reduce the "undeserved" single records and make Square-1 a bit more interesting.
 
what about new competitors or people who improved a lot etc what would the rule for them be? i see that suggestion as very problematic. I disagree with you on this. my view: who gives a **** about sq1 single and whether it was lucky. Singles dont matter much and this person legitimately got this time!
 
I'm still not convinced for probability reasons (basically, much more likely there was some kind of cheating/scrambling mistake/other shenanigans than that there was actually a ridiculously lucky scramble, given the random scramble style we use).

Honestly, because Square-1 is a much longer event than 2x2x2 with a lot of difference between people's times, it would be really nice if we could prevent this kind of thing from happening, and having very fast people have to compete with a crazy single achieved primarily by luck. I'd like something to not allow any singles less than, say, 0.5 of someone's best average. I'm sure a couple people would be unhappy with this, and I agree it's pretty arbitrary, and the edge cases would be problematic, but I think it would help reduce the "undeserved" single records and make Square-1 a bit more interesting.

So getting lucky is a crime?
 
Even if he cant reconstruct, At least we can have the scramble and someone can figure out optimal solution from cube explorer and see if it is possible at all do be that efficient?
I m pretty sure the solver would remember what edge case he got regardless of how he solved cubeshape.
 
I'm still not convinced for probability reasons (basically, much more likely there was some kind of cheating/scrambling mistake/other shenanigans than that there was actually a ridiculously lucky scramble, given the random scramble style we use).

Honestly, because Square-1 is a much longer event than 2x2x2 with a lot of difference between people's times, it would be really nice if we could prevent this kind of thing from happening, and having very fast people have to compete with a crazy single achieved primarily by luck. I'd like something to not allow any singles less than, say, 0.5 of someone's best average. I'm sure a couple people would be unhappy with this, and I agree it's pretty arbitrary, and the edge cases would be problematic, but I think it would help reduce the "undeserved" single records and make Square-1 a bit more interesting.

And do what? DNF them? That's not fair, they had no choice about getting a lucky scramble, so them getting a lucky scramble can make their average worse? Anyway, quite a few people wouldn't have their current singles. How about you just realise that single WRs, whilst cool, can be ignored. What's stopping you from thinking "Bingliang Li is the best Sq1 solver in the world"?
 
Square-1 single is more variable than 2x2, to be honest. Even with random-state scrambles, an easy scramble can have a ridiculously short solution. If you have a solve with an EO skip and an EP skip, that's basically a 2x2 ortega solve. An easy cubeshape on top of that can be very fast. He supposedly got a LL skip, which makes me think he probably got an easy blockbuild F2L to produce a time this fast.

I'm still very curious to see the scrambles, have they been posted anywhere yet?
 
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