Seven Towns vs. Dayan - Color Scheme Copyright Infringment

[Michael Womack]

Link provided is interesting. I read/scanned a lot. So it appears that white cubes would be legal as would be stickerless cubes?

That about tiles cubes like the Tiled mefferts 4x4?

 

[Chree]

lol

What are we gonna do, threaten to continue not buying their products?

Hah... touché sir.

But in all seriousness, is there really anything we can do? I see a lot of anger and not much in the way of calls to action.

What really gets me is, yeah, I totally understand the desire to stomp on the innumerable little guys that put out cheap knockoffs and sell them on amazon and grocery stores... but the fact that they used Dayan as a target and caught the entire speedcubing community in the blast radius is inexcusable.

Welp... they're gonna be at world's. You can all let 'em know how you feel in person, if you want.

 

[ZigzagCuber]

same im thinking of getting a higher layer cube but am afraid of customs destroying it

 

[Michael Womack]

I just got my 6 3x3 cubes that I ordered from DX.com came from china all 6 of them survived. I ordered them about 3 weeks ago.

 

[MaikeruKonare]

SEVEN TOWNS IS STUPID. By getting DaYan to add purple, they are changing nothing. As soon as any purple-instead-of-orange DaYan I order comes in the mail I AM GOING TO SLAP RUBIK COLOUR STICKERS ON IT. Seven Towns is just a baby who doesn't want anyone to take their raddle away.

same im thinking of getting a higher layer cube but am afraid of customs destroying it

I'm afraid to buy any cubes): I don't want them to get hurt because I bought them): Rubik is destroying the cubing industry and it upsets me): LETS REVOLT! DOWN WITH RUBIK! DOWN WITH SEVEN TOWNS!

 

[cannon4747]

lol

What are we gonna do, threaten to continue not buying their products?

haha I get your point, but when people ask us about cubes or anything we could easily tell them to stay away from Rubiks. I know I will.

Did you go to competition with a rubik's brand?

I brought one with me one time, but I didn't use it.


It seems like dayan solved this problem (and the stickerless cube issue with the WCA) by coming out with purple plastic cubes. Same colored plastic that lots of ppl love, no copyright infringement, same color scheme, and competition legal. But it seriously does bother me that the big cube companies like to attempt to destroy the cubing industry simply because they want the dollar thats not coming to them either way. They're spiting us like the little girls they are.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Just imagine if Rubik's brands were the only cubes there were to buy. What would speedcubing look like? Besides the not as good times, it wouldn't be even near as enjoyable a hobby imo. It would definitely not be as cool. Actually, it probably wouldn't be my hobby. It would just be what it was before I discovered the world of speedcubing. I knew how to solve it and that was about it.

 

[CarlBrannen]

I really don't think I could twist a Rubik's cube at my age, not for 300 solves a day.

Here's three bad suggestions:

(1) Make up a list of better cubes, say all the cubes that have set world records for 3x3 in the last 8 years.

These will be printed on business card size card stock by the companies that export "knock-offs" to the United States. They will also include their own internet address on the cards.

Instead of including one such business card in a shipment, they'll include a dozen or two. Cubers carry around the cards and when someone asks about the cube, they hand out the card.

The result is more business for world class cube companies, more people speed cubing, but I wouldn't bet that this would decrease the number of Rubik's cubes sold.

(2) Make it illegal to use a cube with Rubiks colors at a WCA competition unless it is a Rubiks cube. This is what Seven Towns is literally asking for. The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced to ship cubes that do not infringe. Eventually Walmart will sell speed cubes. This may seem unpleasant but it could be forced on the WCA by a letter that could be written at any time. And if such a letter arrived, it wouldn't be as convenient, if the WCA plans it, they can make the change to the new rules happen 12 months in the future instead of "henceforth and immediately".

(3) Have the WCA define a color scheme that definitely does not infringe and copyright it into the public domain. Then require that all cubes at WCA meets use this color scheme. (People will still be able to use half brights or flourescent etc.) The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced into selling cubes that do not infringe Seven Towns. Eventually toy sellers in the US will start selling them. Again, this eliminates the sword that is hanging over the WCA.

So Seven Towns hasn't sent that letter to WCA yet. Maybe that's due to the fact that there are no Seven Towns cubes suitable for speed cubing. There's been rumors that Seven Towns is working on a speed cube. If those rumors are true, the logical thing for Seven Towns to do would be to ban infringing speed cubes by writing that letter to the WCA. As someone said here, what would speed cubers do, quit buying Rubik's brand? I don't think that's a real threat. From the situation they're in now, it's not possible for Seven Towns to do anything that would reduce the number of cubes they sell to speed cubers.

 

[AvGalen]

(2) Make it illegal to use a cube with Rubiks colors at a WCA competition unless it is a Rubiks cube. This is what Seven Towns is literally asking for.

No, Seven Towns is not interested in what we do at competitions. They are interested in what is sold. How you hack/mod/resticker after buying is your right

 

[CarlBrannen]

I'd love to read the legal document where Seven Towns permanently released their copyright to be free for individuals to use, LOL.

From what I've read, there have been seizures of DIY kits. This suggests that there is no such agreement. Buy you can read what Seven Towns says about their copyright on their website. I didn't see any limitations:

Seven Towns Ltd will prosecute unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand or any other intellectual property rights identified above. Such reproductions may also be seized and destroyed by customs authorities throughout the world.
http://www.rubiks.com/company/legal.php

What's more, Seven Towns is legally obligated to protect its copyright by agreements they've made with their licensees:

Seven Towns Ltd has successfully prosecuted unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand and associated products and other work based on the intellectual property rights identified above. In addition, customs authorities are on alert and copies and counterfeit reproductions have also been seized and destroyed on arrival into European Union, US and other territories.

Seven Towns Ltd has undertakings through agreements with its numerous existing licensees to continue to vigorously defend these rights.
http://www.seventowns.com/Rubiks_Legal_Notice.html

The real problem is that, as you wrote, "[t]hey are interested in what is sold." If they start selling speedcubes, their actions will be the same as any other company. If they can sell more cubes by enforcing their copyright it's in their best interests to do so. That is, they will protect value for their shareholders. The desires and feelings of speed cubers don't enter into the equation.

 

[qqwref]

Buy you can read what Seven Towns says about their copyright on their website. I didn't see any limitations:

They certainly do act like their copyright is extremely expansive (although what they say they have rights to keeps changing...). I would like to see the actual, official wording of the copyright they have. I think it's quite possible that they are overstating their rights (to intimidate competitors) or claiming rights that would be immediately overturned by a judge. As I said you can't create a dictionary attached to a pair of scissors and then claim copyright over any combination of the included words.

Remember when Dayan changed their stickers from orange to purple? According to what Seven Towns says, the cube would still be an obvious violation of their copyright, and unsellable - and yet in that case they seemed to be fine as long as the cube didn't violate Seven Towns's trademark (which is for a black 3x3x3 with a specific color scheme). So there's definitely something weird going on here.

 

[mark49152]

It's not in Seven Towns' interest to make clear statements about what they would or wouldn't litigate over. Fear, uncertainty and doubt helps them and is probably a deliberate objective for them.

 

[makssl6911]

Hm, so the patent aplies to a standard color scheme-black 3x3 cube. Can't you just do an R2? Isnt it then tecnhically stickered with an R2, therefore being legal?

 

[Stefan]

Hm, so the patent

No.

 

[BaMiao]

We all really need to stop playing intellectual property lawyer here and accept the fact that we don't know anything about any of this (unless you are, in fact, an intellectual property lawyer- in which case, speak up!). There's a reason that patent/copyright lawyers make the big bucks, and it's not because they can tell the difference between orange and purple.

 

[cannon4747]

(3) Have the WCA define a color scheme that definitely does not infringe and copyright it into the public domain. Then require that all cubes at WCA meets use this color scheme. (People will still be able to use half brights or flourescent etc.) The result will be that the speed cube makers will be forced into selling cubes that do not infringe Seven Towns. Eventually toy sellers in the US will start selling them. Again, this eliminates the sword that is hanging over the WCA.

actually, this could work out for the speedcubing community. The cube manufacturers could avoid the copyright infringement by simply putting on flourescent or half brights on all their cubes default, like most cubers seem to want.

And I thought that copyrights were primarily for printed or written things such as the rubiks logo (or okay I guess maybe the color scheme). Patents are what could actually limit rubik cube production, but their patent ran out. If you think about it for half a second, copyright should only protect copies. A dayan cube and a rubiks cube are not copies of one another, not by a long shot. So therefore I think the actual puzzles should be safe. Their patent is long gone. The copyright should hold no power in this area. Or I might just be playing lawyer when I actually know nothing lol.

What I think we'd all like to see is the actual copyright and not what "they say" about their copyright. They could say anything they want if they don't ever hand over any information. And shouldn't this be public record?

okay, I'm done with my rant on this subject for tonight lol

 

[qqwref]

The whole color scheme thing refers to their trademark. Changing the color scheme does indeed avoid trademark infringement. Nothing is very clear about the copyright (including its validity).

 

[YddEd]

actually, this could work out for the speedcubing community. The cube manufacturers could avoid the copyright infringement by simply putting on flourescent or half brights on all their cubes default, like most cubers seem to want.

I think he meant like purple instead of orange, not different shades.

 

[cannon4747]

I think he meant like purple instead of orange, not different shades.

but wouldn't different shades work too? I think it should be something to try out, partly because I wanna see if it works, mostly because I don't wanna buy half brights anymore lol.

 

[YddEd]

but wouldn't different shades work too? I think it should be something to try out, partly because I wanna see if it works, mostly because I don't wanna buy half brights anymore lol.

Well, people would still know that a florescent yellow is still a yellow, right? So I don't really know if that would make much of a difference.